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G.Fast is all around...

rich-
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎25-04-2020

G.Fast is all around...

All my immediate neighbours can order g.fast, both sides and opposite.

Our street is only 5 years old. Openreach tell me it's because they've given me a duff line but tdgaf.

Is that the end of the road? Any suggestions? Any grounds to complain? My speeds are about 55Mbps which seems borderline for what's expected.

(Red houses can't order it, green can).

 

I’ve checked our systems and I’m sorry but you won’t be able to order G.FAST. The addresses and telephone lines in your area are just on the limit of where G.FAST can reach.

Based on our checks and assessing the length and quality of your line the predicted speed that your telephone line will receive is below the G.FAST limits and is showing as not stable enough to cope with the high speeds that G.FAST provides.

I appreciate that both your direct neighbours may have G.FAST service but their lines would have passed the automated line check. The issue could be a less than perfect part of the telephone line which could be inside your property to somewhere out in the network on the way back to the Telephone Exchange.

 

 

zyiobNr.pngScreenshot_20210414-193021.jpg

12 REPLIES 12
RealAleMadrid
Seasoned Champion
Posts: 1,547
Thanks: 693
Fixes: 36
Registered: ‎07-07-2009

Re: G.Fast is all around...

@rich-  If you are not getting 80/20 sync speeds on FTTC you can forget G.Fast it just won't work. Your speed seems low at 55Mbps, have you investigated why it is lower than the 80Mbps top estimate? If openreach say you are out of range to get G.Fast there's not much you can do about it.☹️

rich-
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎25-04-2020

Re: G.Fast is all around...

I'm not sure what to investigate from my end.

It was really poor with line noise and frequent disconnects maybe a couple of years ago, an engineer came out and it's been at about 55Mbps since. It had been at 75ish. The quiet line test seems ok now.
Auric
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎22-03-2021

Re: G.Fast is all around...

@rich- 

I suggest that you log into your modem-router and look up its basic line reporting stats. You should find data providing the following information for each of the upstream and downstream comms :

Current data rate

Maximum data rate

Signal to Noise ratio

Line attenuation

Signal attenuation

The current data rate and noise margin are also reported by PPPoE authentication message which you should find in the modem-router logs. Possibly in the WAN log if you have one.

Some modems will also report line error stats. Which modem-router are you using?

Depending on the information you report we may be able to conclude that your line has been banded; hence the 55Mbps limit.

rich-
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎25-04-2020

Re: G.Fast is all around...

I've got an Asus RT-AC66U router behind an Openreach provided modem (off the top of my head I think it's the ECI one, I had the other and bought the current one to see it it helped, it didn't significantly).

I can't seem to see those details on the Asus and I haven't got access to the modem's UI as far as I know (I seem to recall you'd have had to flash the firmware or something).
Auric
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎22-03-2021

Re: G.Fast is all around...

@rich- 

Without the Openreach modem stats it is challenging to attempt any kind of diagnosis.

Try and find out how to access the data. Is there not modem log info printed on the device? Perhaps you can find and download the one-line user manual for it.

Once you have the info you should be able to access the modem through the Asus router.

The only other suggestion I can offer is to ask the ISP to run a KBD GEA test. The report will show up any issues with the setting of the line profile which, unlikely as it might be, may have been incorrectly modified and thus “capping” your loop data rates.

RealAleMadrid
Seasoned Champion
Posts: 1,547
Thanks: 693
Fixes: 36
Registered: ‎07-07-2009

Re: G.Fast is all around...

If it's the ECI modem there is no access to the line stats without major modifications to the modem. The Huawei HG612 can be unlocked and provide full stats with a fairly simple firmware update.

Auric
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎22-03-2021

Re: G.Fast is all around...

@RealAleMadrid I did not know that the OR ECI modem is locked, essentially only plug and play. Thanks for the info.

I wonder if the OP's modem supports Telnet?

 

@rich- Working without any data, working blind, I can only think of two options.

  1. Source another modem or modem-router combo that is amenable to deliver line quality information.
  2. Persuade the ISP to
    1. provide you with a KBD GEA test report in case the profile is wrong for your contract, and
    2. to request that the ISP requests a DLM reset in case that the DSLAM’s DLM has “banded” your line reducing it from c. 75 to 55 Mbps because of historical line noise issues. The higher bit rate rate will only be sustained if your line has improved and your internal property wiring is satisfactory.
rich-
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎25-04-2020

Re: G.Fast is all around...

I've flashed the HG612, that was the other one I had. I assume the HEC upstream isn't really that and it's some sort of 2^32 integer overflow issue.

Screenshot 2021-04-17 at 09.57.52.png

RealAleMadrid
Seasoned Champion
Posts: 1,547
Thanks: 693
Fixes: 36
Registered: ‎07-07-2009

Re: G.Fast is all around...

@rich-  That's good you can see some stats now, however the HG612 Web GUI is a bit screwed up, some of the values are wrong. You need to use telnet via the LAN2 connection on the modem to get the correct values so from a DOS window

telnet 192.168.1.1 (or whatever the modem IP address is)

username admin password admin

Then enter sh to get to the busybox shell, you then can enter a lot of commands  A useful one is 

xdslcmd info --stats

This will give lot of connection details and errors seen over various time periods.

I will be interested to see if the downstream snrm value is different to the web page. The speed doesn't look like a banded value so the snrm should be at the default of 6dB or lower.

I wouldn't worry about the HEC errors value it's an overflow and it may not be showing the correct data anyway.

 

rich-
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎25-04-2020

Re: G.Fast is all around...

# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:	0
Last initialization procedure status:	0
Max:	Upstream rate = 22090 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60348 Kbps
Bearer:	0, Upstream rate = 19000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59771 Kbps
Bearer:	1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:	L0
Mode:			VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:		Profile 17a
TPS-TC:			PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:		U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:		No Defect
Training Status:	Showtime
		Down		Up
SNR (dB):	 6.6		 8.3
Attn(dB):	 15.2		 0.0
Pwr(dBm):	 13.6		 6.1
			VDSL2 framing
			Bearer 0
MSGc:		-6		26
B:		243		237
M:		1		1
T:		0		41
R:		10		16
S:		0.1300		0.3980
L:		15632		5106
D:		8		1
I:		254		127
N:		254		254
Q:		8		0
V:		0		0
RxQueue:		48		0
TxQueue:		16		0
G.INP Framing:		18		0
G.INP lookback:		16		0
RRC bits:		0		24
			Bearer 1
MSGc:		122		-6
B:		0		0
M:		2		0
T:		2		0
R:		16		0
S:		8.0000		0.0000
L:		32		0
D:		1		0
I:		32		0
N:		32		0
Q:		0		0
V:		0		0
RxQueue:		0		0
TxQueue:		0		0
G.INP Framing:		0		0
G.INP lookback:		0		0
RRC bits:		0		0
			Counters
			Bearer 0
OHF:		0		931084
OHFErr:		0		6
RS:		116385336		3804712
RSCorr:		41		26
RSUnCorr:	0		0
			Bearer 1
OHF:		236451		0
OHFErr:		0		0
RS:		1891112		0
RSCorr:		0		0
RSUnCorr:	0		0

			Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:		14009771		0
rtx_c:		2		0
rtx_uc:		0		0

			G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:		0		0
minEFTR:	59774		0
errFreeBits:	3461789		0

			Bearer 0
HEC:		0		0
OCD:		0		0
LCD:		0		0
Total Cells:	436529157		0
Data Cells:	2359121		0
Drop Cells:	0
Bit Errors:	0		0

			Bearer 1
HEC:		0		0
OCD:		0		0
LCD:		0		0
Total Cells:	0		0
Data Cells:	0		0
Drop Cells:	0
Bit Errors:	0		0

ES:		0		6
SES:		0		0
UAS:		28		28
AS:		3798

			Bearer 0
INP:		48.00		0.00
INPRein:	0.00		0.00
delay:		0		0
PER:		0.00		4.09
OR:		0.01		62.51
AgR:		59832.54	19062.98

			Bearer 1
INP:		2.00		0.00
INPRein:	2.00		0.00
delay:		0		0
PER:		16.06		0.01
OR:		63.75		0.01
AgR:		63.75	0.01

Bitswap:	1077/1077		1/1

Total time = 1 hours 3 min 46 sec
FEC:		41		26
CRC:		0		6
ES:		0		6
SES:		0		0
UAS:		28		28
LOS:		0		0
LOF:		0		0
LOM:		0		0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 46 sec
FEC:		0		0
CRC:		0		0
ES:		0		0
SES:		0		0
UAS:		0		0
LOS:		0		0
LOF:		0		0
LOM:		0		0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:		7		14
CRC:		0		3
ES:		0		3
SES:		0		0
UAS:		0		0
LOS:		0		0
LOF:		0		0
LOM:		0		0
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 3 min 46 sec
FEC:		41		26
CRC:		0		6
ES:		0		6
SES:		0		0
UAS:		28		28
LOS:		0		0
LOF:		0		0
LOM:		0		0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:		0		0
CRC:		0		0
ES:		0		0
SES:		0		0
UAS:		0		0
LOS:		0		0
LOF:		0		0
LOM:		0		0
Since Link time = 1 hours 3 min 17 sec
FEC:		41		26
CRC:		0		6
ES:		0		6
SES:		0		0
UAS:		0		0
LOS:		0		0
LOF:		0		0
LOM:		0		0
RealAleMadrid
Seasoned Champion
Posts: 1,547
Thanks: 693
Fixes: 36
Registered: ‎07-07-2009

Re: G.Fast is all around...

@rich-  Thanks for getting the telnet stats, as I suspected the downstream SNRM is around 6dB so it doesn't look like the line is banded on the downstream at least, the upstream could be banded as the SNRM is 8.3 dB which is high and the speed is stuck at exactly19Mbps which suggests banding but that's not your main problem.

Your line characteristics are remarkably similar to my line apart from one thing my downstream sync speed is 79.999 Mbps as you can see below

# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 25132 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73828 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 1.8 12.6
Attn(dB): 15.3 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.1 6.8

The attenuation and power levels  are very similar my target SNRM has been reduced to 3dB by G.Inp (and reduced further by crosstalk) G.Inp reduces the SNRM dropping from 6 dB to 3 dB in 1dB steps over a week or so.

This has not happened on your line, its possible that the ECI modem did not support G.Inp if it was one of the earlier ones. I know that the early HG612 modems did not support it. The unlocked firmware does support it.

So if you leave the HG612 running for a while you may see the SNRM dropping and speed increasing but it is disappointingly low at the moment,  not even at the impacted line minimum of 60Mbps.

I have estimated my line length to be 450 metres possibly a bit more so yours is likely to be similar but you are not getting the estimated speeds showing on the checker. One other thing that could affect the speed is phone extension wiring in the house, are you using a filtered faceplate which prevents the broadband signal getting into the extension wiring?

Your original post was about G.Fast but with the evidence of the poor FTTC speed I think that there is no chance of getting it.☹️

rich-
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎25-04-2020

Re: G.Fast is all around...

It's an Openreach MK3 faceplate.

I'm largely assuming that it's all fine at my end anyway, because I used to get over 70Mbps before an issue turned up that an engineer "fixed" without coming into the house. Never seen those speeds since.