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Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

krestsaf
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎29-12-2015

Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Firstly apologies for just pasting my reply to tech but ive had a gutful.
Quick synopsis
PN keep changing my firewall setting to on or off overnight
This causes me to lose connection till equip rebooted
ORIG install of preconfig Sagemcom router/OR BT Modem/Openreach eng installed last summer no settings changed since
Router in lounge on main NTE5 socket
Tplink wa850re extender some 15feet away in hall
Mainly use extender plug signal as closest to bedroom where i spend most time
Ethernet cable straigh from router 1.EE booster box and 2. Seagate 1tb SSHDD Portable used
Wifi extender in hall signal for
1. Samsung mobile 1
2. Samsung mobile 2
3. Kobo ereader 1
4. Kobo ereader 2
5. Nowtv box
6. Minix neo x8 android box
These equipments have been in situ since fibre installation inception except for the tplink wa850re extendet which was introduced to extend and stabilise wifi strength after sevwral weeks of speakinv with tech support who just said the line is fine regardless of me stating poor signal and drops. They simply just wanted stats via ethernet which i got a friend to help with which returned i believe appx 35mps.
i find it difficult installing, removing, replacing and eliminating equipment to fault find as i have terminal cancer in mh spine and physical disabilities hence why this situation isnt ideal. And why i spend most of the time in bed Roll eyes
I apologise now for being long winded but below is my latest response to tech as just getting nowhere as follows:
1.firewall unauth switching by plusnet as i have RECURSIVE DNS ON MY LINE
2.Tech wont explain in basic terms what RECURSIVE DNS IS
3. WONT afvise how it got on the line
4. How to easily rectify the problem
5.offer any real support tech wise or compassionately
6.advise if and when i can cancel as failure to offer as advised and paid for stability fibre since inception.
Heres the reply
Ok. This has gone on long enough with no true answers or resolve.
As you can see below im Very upset and frusrated and of course angry and yoir lack of ownership in rectifying this issue. Who is accountable hete?!? Not one of the responses is yet instead just copy and paste useless jargon in resolving the issues raised.
Well enough is enough. I have contacted ofcom and the telecoms advisory boatds as im not paying nearly £50pm for a service plusnet has yet to provide satisfactorily since inception.
Im still awaiting confirmation from you A. Cust serv team and B. Your tech team to advise why i have problrms with dropped connection since install and why my firewall MUST remain on despite it being MY account.
Please also CONFIRM
A. What the hell RECURSIVE DNS is!
B. What the hell it has to do with my line installation config bt BT OPENREACH engineers
C. How ut came to be on my line tests
D. How i remove it when i didnt put it there and im disabled with terminal cancer so PHYSICALLY UNABLE to remove and retest equipment the original engineer fitted ie router and modem
E. Why i am being blamed for this error when nothing has been altered on my setup by me
F. When i can get this rectified or i can cancel my contract.
Also i have researched the RECURSIVE DNS as its unfathomable to me not being tech minded and your responses being unacceptable and poor by using this page.
http://social.dnsmadeeasy.com/blog/authoritative-vs-recursive-dns-servers-whats-the-difference/
I also want to know
1. My fibre cancellation date on my current contract
2. My voice and line rental cancellation dates as per latest contract
3. When and how this rec dns problem is to be fixed and by who as i am physically unable
4. Why my firewall switch has such an issue to you when i either have it on via the main account gui dashboard or set on via the sagemcom router? But you continually keep changing it back causing loss of connections.
5. What compensation plusnet will be offering for the pure disrespect, inconvenience and mental distress and upset caused by several firewall emails, loss of service due to firewall switch changes without prior notification or authorisation and the distress upset and delays by me having the worry that having this on my line i am exposed to data theft and security risks with personal data thanks to you changing firewall settings and no blaming me for this so called rec dns debacle which i am still to understand when the router dns setting is to google which is what the openreach engineer left it as and your sagencom router is preconfigured still as it was when sent originally with the fibre order. Why why why. I jyst want answer and want this fix or i want to cancel. Ive had enough.
I am absolutely exhausted and appalled by your lack of compassion for me as a long standing cst of over 6yrs and as a disabled customer. There is no respect or loyalty and certainly no help offered just tries to baffle me with tech jargon and excuses which dont rectify anything and just upset me and stress me out further.
Not one of the responses from tech support has been useful or rectifying.
I WANT ANSWERS AND I WANT THEM ASAP, VIA EMAIL (as i struggle to talk on the phone due to my disabilities) PLUS ITS BETTER TO DOCUMENT ALL CORRESPONDENCE FOR FURTHER REFERENCE.
I await your immediate response.
Please please can anyone save my onsanity and give me some answers, and easy fix or a get out of jail card for my PN contract.
I await ur replies and thx for reading.
[Moderator's note by Dick (Strat) All caps title and text edited as per forum rule.
17 REPLIES
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,682
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Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Hi there,
I'm sorry that you're experiencing problems with your connection and have also had an issue with the firewall being turned on for your account.
Let's address the speed problems you're reporting first.
Quote
These equipments have been in situ since fibre installation inception except for the tplink wa850re extendet which was introduced to extend and stabilise wifi strength after sevwral weeks of speakinv with tech support who just said the line is fine regardless of me stating poor signal and drops. They simply just wanted stats via ethernet which i got a friend to help with which returned i believe appx 35mps.

That shows that the issue is very very likely to be down to the wireless signal, unfortunately we can't guarantee a wireless signal due to the varying amount of environmental factors that can affect it. If the signal isn't good enough to where you use it, you can try going through some wireless troubleshooting here: http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/wireless_broadband/

Recursive DNS/Open DNS responder:
This means that something on your network is responding to public DNS requests, this is why the firewall is being turned on. Unfortunately we can't advise which device it is as we simply wouldn't be able to tell, it could be the router, extender, booster box, android box or even the networked hard drive.
Quote
why my firewall MUST remain on despite it being MY account.

An open DNS resolver can be used in certain types of online attacks, so when we detect one we take steps to mitigate this until the problem is resolved.
This isn't something we'd offer compensation, or removal of the contract for I'm afraid.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
gofaster
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Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Quote
we take steps to mitigate this until the problem is resolved

But you can't give *any* help in actually resolving the problem?
Come on Chris - you must know a bit about these things. How would *you* investigate it if it were *your* network with this problem?
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎16-10-2014

Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

For me it would depend on how many hosts were on my network, and disconnect each one in turn, to see which one left my firewall in the On setting overnight (or as often as the scan is done). If that were to tedious I'd use Nmap to do a dns service scan on my LAN.
Community Gaffer
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Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Sorry, but we can't really advice on how to check each item in the local network. We advise to remove any additional devices that could cause this and then we can test if there's still an open resolver showing.
Quote
to see which one left my firewall in the On setting overnight (or as often as the scan is done).

You don't even need to wait, you can test for an open resolver by specifying the IP address when doing an nslookup via cmd prompt.
For example using an IP that doesn't have a DNS resolver gives this result:
nslookup bbc.co.uk 80.229.X.X
DNS request timed out.
    timeout was 2 seconds.
Server:  UnKnown
Address:  80.229.X.X
DNS request timed out.
    timeout was 2 seconds.

However testing the same on an IP that does have an open resolver gives this result:
nslookup bbc.co.uk 217.39.X.X
Server:  X.X.X.X
Address:  217.39.X.X
Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    bbc.co.uk
Addresses:  212.58.244.22
          212.58.244.23
          212.58.246.79
          212.58.246.78
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Community Veteran
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Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Thanks for that Chris. Armed with that information the OP can now diagnose his own network and I think this was the kind of help gofaster may have been eluding to; no need for Nmap  Grin
gofaster
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Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

From the list of connected devices provided by krestsaf, it looks like he doesn't have anything that can give a command prompt - let alone accept an nslookup command.
Wouldn't there need to be a port forwarding rule on the router for port 53 for krestsaf to be responding to DNS requests? Can someone advise how to check for this on a Sagemcom router and how to remove it if found?
Community Veteran
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Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Quote from: gofaster

Wouldn't there need to be a port forwarding rule on the router for port 53

Yes, or the suspect device placed in DMZ.
It may also be possible for UPnP to open port 53 to a DNS resolver, although I believe that would be unusual.

Can Plusnet support not connect in to the OP's router via TR069 and check these basic settings.
Andrue
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Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Some routers have an OpenDNS resolver by default as I found out earlier this year. AAISP have quite a good page on the issue:
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:Open_DNS_Resolvers
FWIW on my Billion I had to create a rule to forward port 53 to a none-existant local IP address.
And yes, I was annoyed when this happened to me but once I understood it I realised it was a good idea by PN to have the firewall automatically kick in.
mikelahey
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Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

I'll try and explain DNS and recursive DNS and why it is bad for the service provider in laymen's terms.
So every website on the internet has a numeric address which uniquely identifies it. e.g. The BBC news website address is 212.58.246.81, this the address which is used to route traffic around the internet, think of it as like a phone number. DNS (Directory Naming Service) is the equivalent of a phone book, so when you type news.bbc.co.uk into your web browser it performs a lookup which turns  the website address into the numeric address.
The way DNS works is that if a DNS directory server can't resolve the website name to a numeric address it forwards the request on until it reaches a server that can answer and passes the result back to the computer that originated the request. Back to our phone book example, say you live in Manchester and you wish to call someone in London called Fred Bloggs, you look in the Manchester phone directory and it says you need to look at the London directory. So you go to the London directory find Fred Bloggs and then you get his phone number so you can then call him, so that you don't have to look him up again you write his number in the front of the Manhcester phone book,  DNS is doing exactly the same thing.
So what happens when you input news.bbc.co.uk into the web browser on your iPad.  The web browser goes to the IPad and says do you know what the address is for BBC News, the iPad says back to the browser no I don't but your router might know, so if forwards the request to your router, the router goes, I don't know I'll ask the Plusnet DNS server. The Plusnet DNS server replies with the 212.58.246.81 address, which is then stored in your router's memory for future reference and then forwarded to the IPad, the IPad gets the address forwards it onto the browser and stores it in its short term memory so that next time it can go straight there.
Next time you access news.bbc.co.uk from the Ipad it knows straight away and doesn't have to bother the router. You then use your laptop to access BBC news it doesn't know the address but contacts the router which has stored it in memory so it doesn't have to go back out to the PlusNet DNS server.
Now if your router has no firewall, it can accept malicious DNS requests from the Internet with a fake source address and generate lots of DNS requests which bounce back and forth between your router and the PlusNet servers, this happens because of the faked source address. This results in the PlusNet servers getting overloaded and effectively takes them out of service, which is not good for all the other PlusNet users.
This is why PlusNet keep turning your Firewall back on as it breaks the loop and only allows DNS requests out of your network, but not DNS requests from the internet to come back into your network. I strongly recommend you leave it turned on for your own safety on-line, unless you are hosting a web site or your own network servers or something similar.
The easiest way to debug the issue you're having is to strip the network back to just the router and a PC with a wired connection. Then add each device back in one by one until the problem occurs with your home network, if you can't do this yourself as a friend to help you do it. When the problem occurs you know that it is that device that is causing the issue and you can investigate it further.
While I sympathise with your situation its really beyond the remit of PlusNet to help you troubleshoot you're home network, they are only responsible for delivering the service as far as your BT Socket.
If the issue is there with only one PC / laptop directly connected to the router via an Ethernet cable then I would  suggest you try another PC or Laptop, if you can get hold of one. If you still have a problem at that point then it is possible that its an issue on the router or the PlusNet network which PlusNet can probably assist you with.
Community Gaffer
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Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Question to the OP. What are you doing that causes you to 'lose connection until you reboot'. What do you lose connection to? Switching the firewall on shouldn't restrict basic Internet access, so I'm assuming it's access to something else (on your network?) you're talking about. Forgive me if that's not the case.
If it is, then I would assume there's been some changes required to the router settings to permit access? If so, it would be interesting to know what these were.
If you haven't made any changes and it is down to a device, then my money is on the Android box.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

krestsaf
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎29-12-2015

Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Thanks guys for the replies.
Slowly trying to get my head around the terminology and ur analogies.
As for what am.i doing to lose connection, nothing it just drops regularly every few days.
Now i thought this morning was an april fools joke but overnight i was downloading on spotify. I have no forwarning of these incidents but yet again and 02.51am approx i had email to say my firewall was switched on again. Now i havent switched it off since the last time a few days ago and chld on the plisnet members dashboard and it stated firewall on.
now subsequent to this switch on it caused my router to drop signal gain and this my downloads reverted to me having now wifi aognal and thus it has used almost my whole months 2gb data allowance on my mobile!!
now im very upset and angry at this as i rely on that for emergencies if i cant get good network signal to make a call i can send a messge via whatsapp etc. I hve never used my whole data allowance of 2gb sonce having the phone as rely on wifi where possible.
I have notified support but i doubt they will be bothered at the inconvenience and upset this has caused me further and wont try and recompense me for my out of pocket expense now through their lack on communicating of saod switch of fitewall PRIOR to the event to avoid me losing connection if im aware i could pln for it better perhaps.
Im trying my best to rectify a problem in as quicker time as possible when physical retrictions re a problem and getting my head around the terminology etc too.
i cant cancel i have been told but i getting to the point where i will pay to end contract early if an option as just so upset nd stressed by it all and thats not good for my helth and current situation.
Im very grateful to you all for helping.
Ps. BT openreach engineers did the orig installation of the fibre connex to Openreach modem and he asked for the plusnet preconfig router and passcode card which i gave his and he said he would do it all and get me up and running. So i hve had no dealings with changing setting only on Wednesday this week speaking to tech support via facebook to change the dns to manual as follows
Primary: 212.159.13.49
Secondary: 212.159.13.50
Thanks to [mremoved]
but this hsnt changed anything. I did notice that it has plusnet sagemcom 2704n firmware but it also has reset to factory setting option on the router. Would this help get me started from  base point? Im hoping to have help in the next few days to remove all equip and test the line for dns. Then dd each equipment and test again to try and find cause.
i do have  laptop but its very slow but hoping the ethernet atretches for me to connect it and test it whilst on the fone to tech support.im surprised there is no teamviewer support for testing especially for disabled customers. Wouldnt like to be deaf or blind or perm in a wheelchair doing these tests or citcus tricks as i see them lol.
Well thank again and keep the replies coming as its helping me.
how do a do a ping test
how do i find a websites ip to ping
the above ppst from Chris really confused me as it didnt state the cmd to use or program etc to use to get such info.
Have a gd weekend
dick:csa
Andrue
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Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

It's a bit difficult to understand precisely what you are saying but here are my thoughts based on what I think you are trying to say:
Firewall Changes and Disconnections.
Switching the firewall on and off will not cause your connection to drop. It might interrupt active tcp sessions (thereby interrupting your downloads, especially if the firewall rule explicitly denies them) but that shouldn't bother your router in the slightest. Technically your router probably won't even know what's happened.
Excess Mobile Phone Charges
Quote
now subsequent to this switch on it caused my router to drop signal gain and this my downloads reverted to me having now wifi aognal and thus it has used almost my whole months 2gb data allowance on my mobile!
Disconnections are inevitable at some time or another. If you have your router configured to switch to 3G when the DSL connection fails that is your choice and your responsibility.
I think you'll find you have two issues here:
1. An unstable line - raise that as a fault.
2. Something on your network that is annoying the PN firewall. You need to fix that yourself.
It's also worth noting that if you have a line issue then changing ISPs (unless it's to a cable service) is unlikely to fix it.
And you might also want to rethink your overall attitude to network management. Your posts here suggest to me that you don't have the experience to be doing what you are trying to do.
krestsaf
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎29-12-2015

Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

Wow Andrue thanks so much for the uneccessary unsavoury reply.
Lets get a few things clear here: Sad
1.this has been a long standing issue.
2.its established that the is a dns issue on the line if you borhered to read the prev comments before just jumping in to judge me Shocked
3.i think there has always been a fault on my line and have reported it several times however, physical restrictions make it difficult to test the line in the remit that tech wish me to carry out faultfinding exercises
4.its not difficult to understand the issues i have as its clearly stated and discussed by others prior to to your reply and the title pretty much gives a bloomin big hint. Embarrassed
5. FYI when the firewall is switched it DOES causes me to lose connection and the wifi signal drops to zeeo which requires me rebooting rhe router via the gui. Why do you doubt my comments? Have u seen what my setup is like and how it operates withour my knowledge? Plusnet have even stated the firewall can cause a drop in connection.
6.firewall rules. Did you fail to read again. NAUGHTY Andrue. I have not set any firewall rules any settings have been made by PN or OR engineer on install.
7. As per number 6 Andrue, my router isnt set to use 3g if dsl signal is lost. The subsequent firewall switching by plusnet caused my fibre router to drop connection and wifi signal and thus downloads i had setup for overnight used my MOBILE PHONE 3G data for the month as specified. I do these downloads at night as my phone is charging, when i dont need it as much for an emergency as im sleeping obviously however, a pre warning email that plusnet will be making changes that could potentially affecr my line and loss of signal would have avoided this inconvenience and if it was for anything other than firewall switch, notifications would happen so why not now?? Roll eyes
look at it this way:
If Scottish Power were going to be switching power sources that could cause you to lose power they would notify you. If you had a power cut every 4th or 5th day though due to Scottish Power changing generators and your alarm clock kept resetting and you overslept for work too many times and thus lose your job i think its fair to say you would be contacting SP wanting answers,this is how it is getting with the firewall switch now its inconveniwnt and costing me money now through lack of notifying me. FYI ANDRUE i have no problem having the firewall on.  Plusnets actions of switching on the firewall have put me out of pocket and at an inconvenience when i rely heavily on the use of my mobile for emergencies. Disappointed Andrue I even attached pretty pictures and you didnt know it was my mobile that had 2gb of data used! Grin
8. Thanks for pointing out those very clearly evident issues that many prexeeding replies have already done. Sadly no gold star today Andrue, but how about you go home.tonight with a Well Done! For adding a 3rd issue to the list!! Angry
9.Obviously i dont wish to change isp to fix the problem directly, i wish to change isp due to the lack of support and help the tech dept have provided me with as vulnerable customer. The customer service has been appalling apart from Tom, and the sheer lack of accountability and ownership is laughable. Embarrassed
10. Last but by no means least. Angry HOW DARE YOU question my attitude and that of how i handle the issues i am having. Do you know me personally to judge me? Angry
Have you EVER lived 1 day with a physical disability? Have you ever considered a situation from anothers perspective and how the impact of the problem and the delays in its resolution have clearly exacerbated the situarion? Im sorry I failed to read point 19.2 of the terms and conditions stating in order to sign up for fibre broadband at home its a prerequisite to know the ins and outs of telecommunications and IT based networking and hold at minimum a Masters in it.  Shocked
I am sure the government roll out for the 21cn and fibre are also lacking the addendum to their literature too as so many in the UK are above the age of digital and thus will struggle with the simplistics of what and ethernet cable even is.  Undecided
BUT ANDRUE I MUST commend you on your great ability to patronise the OP and look like an inuit knowitall without any clear idea or knowledge of anything that bares any true relevance to the problem, and all in the same post. You would give Jeremy Hunt and George Osborne a run for their money.  Angry A great feat 2 WELL DONE's in one day. Grin
Next time if you havent got anything useful or informative to add to a thread perhaps dont bother wasting others time by posting and being a keyboard warrior.  Sad Kiss
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pwatson
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Re: Firewall-recursive DNS blamed-tech refuse to assist & just blame customer! Help!

I think you need to take a step back and break down the problem...
You have a number of issues that you're wrapping up and blaming PN for:
1.  Your wifi is dropping
2.  Your router needs to be rebooted
3.  You may have a DNS resolver on your network that somehow has set up forwarded ports on your router (uPnP?)
4.  Your line is disconnecting
5.  The firewall keeps being switched on
These are not all necessarily the same thing!
If PN are turning on the firewall then they may force your connection to drop, but the modem won't lose sync, so that the change is made (If you manually change the firewall settings then you need to drop your connection in order for the changes made to be effective).  Your router should re-establish the connection and you'll have a brief outage.  Let's ignore the firewall issue for now....
The fact that your router needs to be rebooted to re-establish the connection *and* that wifi is dropping off are the relevant points here.  This suggests to me that you may have a faulty router as, under normal circumstances, these two functions are independent.  It may also be that you have something on your network that is causing the router to fall over for example by opening a huge number of sessions.  Try disconnecting the Android box and leaving it off for a few days to see if there's an improvement...
[Edit - Reread and removed the reference to the line disconnecting]