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Fibre v Fibre Extra

bazzer9
Grafter
Posts: 27
Thanks: 2
Registered: 04-10-2014

Fibre v Fibre Extra

At the moment I have Fibre Unlimites + Phone. This is advertised as having download speeds up to 38Mbps but I typically achieve 30Mbps  according to  the OOKLA speedtest
app on my iPad , which isn't bad.
Fibre Unlimited Extra is advertised as having speeds up to 76Mbps. If I decided to upgrade to Fibre Extra could I achieve download speeds of typically double my
present speed (say near 60Mbps) with the same line ?
If so, how does Plusnet achieve this ?
I've read that the download speed is determined by the Openreach network and with FTTC speed will reduce the further you are away from the cabinet.
And that the realisable speed will be the same for all ISPs that use the same network.
If that is true then I couldn't achieve any speed improvement by upgrading to Fiber Extra. Or am I missing something ?
9 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,027
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Fibre v Fibre Extra

Up to means exactly that
It doesn't mean that you will get an increase in speed unless you are hitting the 40Mbps sync speed limit
Have you tried running the BT speedtest then further diagnostics to get the IP profile
Have you checked what the expected speeds are here https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm
bazzer9
Grafter
Posts: 27
Thanks: 2
Registered: 04-10-2014

Re: Fibre v Fibre Extra

The results of the tests I've run are included below
Not sure what all of the availability checker results mean .
Am I hitting the 40Mbps sync speed limit ?
What are FTTC ranges A and B ?
Would there be any speed advantage in upgrading to Fibre Extra ?
Thanks

BT Wholesale Broadband Performance Test
Broadband Speed Test Results
                                    Download Speed (Mbps):  30.96
                                    Upload Speed (Mbps):  8.44
                                    Ping Latency(ms):  26.25

BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Telephone Number xxxxxxxxx on Exchange ASCOT is served by Cabinet 12
Featured Products
              Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)                            Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)    Downstream Range(Mbps)  Availability Date
                                                High    Low                                  High        Low

FTTC Range A (Clean)            47.8    34.8                                  10.6          7                                --                              Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted)      40      23                                      10.6          5.7                            --                                Available
 
WBC ADSL 2+                            Up to 4                                                --                                      3 to 5                          Available
ADSL Max                                  Up to 0.5                                              --                                0.25 to 1.5                      Available
WBC Fixed Rate                              1                                                      --                                      --                              Available
Fixed Rate                                      1                                                      --                                      --                                Available
Other Offerings
FTTP on Demand                          330                                                  30                                      --                                Available
Fibre Multicast                                --                                                      --                                      --                                Available
Copper Multicast                            --                                                      --                                        --                              Available

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.
For FTTC Ranges A and B, the term "Clean" relates to a line which is free from any wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions, and the term "Impacted" relates to a line which may have wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions.
Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.
The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2014. The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 30-Nov-2012; the Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 30-Jun-2014.
If the End User wishes to migrate from their current Broadband supplier they will need to contact them in the first instance to obtain a MAC (Migrations Authorisation) Code, and then contact their new Broadband supplier to arrange for the service to be migrated.
Note: If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service.
Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.
Thank you for your interest.
Nyxanna
Grafter
Posts: 46
Registered: 16-05-2013

Re: Fibre v Fibre Extra

Basically the speed you have now is the most you'll ever have unless there is something wrong with your line.
Up to 38 Mb/s simply means that your speed will be capped at 38. Up to 76 it means that it will be capped at 76.
This only happens if your connection is actually fast enough to reach those speeds. You got 30 and that's where it is going to stay. If you get the 76 product you're still going to be getting the same speed but pay more, for nothing.
What the other poster is trying to find out if perhaps there is a fault with your connection and whether it could go faster or if speed profile is too low and you could get more but most likely there is nothing you can do.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,412
Thanks: 4
Registered: 29-01-2009

Re: Fibre v Fibre Extra

Oldjim asked you to do a BT Wholesale speed test then further diagnostics. The actual speed result (that you posted) isn't so important as the IP profile that you get from the "further diagnostics".
Unfortunately, a slow speed test result only shows us that speeds are below expectations, but it does nothing to help diagnose why.
The IP profile will let us know what speed you are syncing at (the sync speed is around 3% higher than the profile), and is the first step in that diagnosis.
The second step is from comparing that sync speed with the expected results published by the BT checker - and it would be useful to make historical comparisons too.
The third step comes from checking that Plusnet are working to the same value of the "IP profile" that BT are using. Plusnet's setting can be found here as the "Current Line Speed".
To answer your questions:
Quote from: bazzer9
I've read that the download speed is determined by the Openreach network and with FTTC speed will reduce the further you are away from the cabinet.
And that the realisable speed will be the same for all ISPs that use the same network.
If that is true then I couldn't achieve any speed improvement by upgrading to Fiber Extra. Or am I missing something ?

Correct. The distance from the cabinet, and the quality of the line, places a real, hard, cap on the speed that the line will go at.
Buying an "up to 38" package from an ISP puts a virtual 40Mbps cap on the line too ... but you can never get speeds higher than the hard cap associated with the distance/quality.
To benefit from an "up to 80" package from any ISP, your distance/quality limitation has to be above 40Mbps.
Quote from: bazzer9
Am I hitting the 40Mbps sync speed limit ?

We can't tell from that, but probably not. The IP profile that goes along with a sync of 40Mbps would 38717, and would normally result in download speeds of around 35-36Mbps.
You would indeed need to be hitting this level to ever benefit from upgrading to an "up to 80" product.
Quote
What are FTTC ranges A and B ?

The A range is described as "clean", which we take to me a good quality pair, with no connections "spurred" off the side (known as a bridge tap), and no issues with the line such as faulty joints.
The B range is described as "impacted", and is likely to be suffering from one or more such problems.
An engineer performing FTTC installation would normally make sure the line is behaving as a "clean" line should.
Quote
Would there be any speed advantage in upgrading to Fibre Extra ?

We need to see more data, but it doesn't look like it. BT expects that the highest sync speed you could get on "Fibre Extra" would be 49Mbps.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Kevin
Rising Star
Posts: 150
Thanks: 12
Registered: 12-10-2007

Re: Fibre v Fibre Extra

bazzer9, you need to do the speedtests from a computer hard wired to the router. Your tests from an Ipad will be limited by the wireless connection. My Ipad usually only gives me 35-38Mb, whereas hard wired I get 60Mb all day long.
Kevin.
bazzer9
Grafter
Posts: 27
Thanks: 2
Registered: 04-10-2014

Re: Fibre v Fibre Extra

I've re-run the BT Wholesale speed test followed by the  further diagnostics with an ethernet connection from my laptop to the plusnet router, as follows :-
Speed Test Results
Download 31.19Mbs  Upload 8.13Mbs    Latency 35.25ms
Further Diagnostics
Download speed achieved during the test was - 31.19 Mbps
 For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 25.86 Mbps-36.94 Mbps .
 Additional Information:
 IP Profile for your line is - 36.94 Mbp
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8.13Mbps
 Additional Information:
 Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps
We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
                      --------------- || ----------------
So as Nyxanna has said, I guess this is as good as I'm likely to get and there would be no point in my upgrading to Fibre Extra.
Just suppose that I lived close enough to the cabinet to achieve upload speeds of 38Mbs -- the capped rate for Fibre. Then I guess I could consider upgrading to Fibre Extra.
But in that case how could I find out before placing an order to upgrade just how fast I was likely to get ? For example, if the uncapped line only supported say 50Mbps it wouldn't be worth the upgrade but if it was over say 65Mbs, it would be worth it.
Does the availability checker result for my local cabinet    FTTC Range A (Clean)    47.8Mbs High  mean that this is the maximum anyone could possibly get from this cabinet  ?
i.e. It wouldn't be worth anyone using this cabinet (even if they lived right next to it) upgrading to Fibre Extra.
Thanks again
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,125
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Registered: 14-08-2007

Re: Fibre v Fibre Extra

Based on that, extra is not likely to give you any faster speeds.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,412
Thanks: 4
Registered: 29-01-2009

Re: Fibre v Fibre Extra

Quote from: bazzer9
But in that case how could I find out before placing an order to upgrade just how fast I was likely to get ? For example, if the uncapped line only supported say 50Mbps it wouldn't be worth the upgrade but if it was over say 65Mbs, it would be worth it.

You'd do what we've asked on here: Check the result of the estimation, to see if the "clean" range was well above 40. If it was close to, or below 40, you'd check the IP profile.
A profile of 36.94 suggests you are synchronising at 38.2Mbps. There is no point in getting the extra package, at least not for the higher downstream speed.
Quote
Does the availability checker result for my local cabinet     FTTC Range A (Clean)    47.8Mbs High   mean that this is the maximum anyone could possibly get from this cabinet  ?

No, it is particular to your line - With no other data to help, the estimator checks the line characteristics it holds for your line (ie the line distance and other physical properties), at least as far as the DP, and makes the estimation based on the performance of similar lines.
Every cabinet is capable of delivering speeds of 80/20 to as many lines have appropriate physical properties - and can probably go faster.
You are generally capable of getting 80/20 speeds within around 350m of the cabinet, but the result (as ever) is also dependent on the quality of the line and how many neighbours have also ordered FTTC.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
bazzer9
Grafter
Posts: 27
Thanks: 2
Registered: 04-10-2014

Re: Fibre v Fibre Extra

Thank you WWWombat for a very comprehensive reply  Smiley