Fibre Fault - Wrongly Provisioned Again and Again and Again.

[#1]

going round in circles

Yeah, I've been driven round in circles for the last 3 months mate. Ever since I signed up to fibre.

I still haven't had an answer, from anyone, as to why the line keeps being re-profiled or re-profiling itself, either.

It was working great for around three weeks - the longest it's worked OK - until Sunday when it suddenly went bits up.

Again.

It just decided to re-profile itself to not work. With no obvious reasons as to why. Again.

[#2]

Yeah, I've been driven round in circles for the last 3 months mate. Ever since I signed up to fibre.

I appreciate and understand the frustration caused behind the fault you're experiencing.

I still haven't had an answer, from anyone, as to why the line keeps being re-profiled or re-profiling itself, either.

You're essentially asking us for an answer we can't give I'm afraid as line tests aren't finding the cause of the problem. DLM will make changes to your line as it sees fit to try to keep a balance between stability and speed. However it is simply failing because your line is still dropping which needs further engineer investigation.

[#3]

Ok, to be certain before I pull the trigger, BT Openreach Huawei HG612 3B VDSL/FTTC Fibre Modem ought to do the trick, yes?

[#4]

While I can't guarantee it would work as we're essentially looking at third party hardware, that looks like it should do the job.

[#5]

I've ordered a refurb one for a tenner.

... so an appointment has been booked for an engineer and if no fault is found you're going to charge me £65?

That's a new one.

There's no fault at this end, the wiring hasn't changed, the socket hasn't changed.

In the meantime, cancel the appointment.

I'll plug the modem in when it arrives, you instruct Openreach to set upstream to fastpath.

Yes, you can.

If the 'fault' goes away when upstream is set to fastpath then we're good to go until next time. Just like the last times.

[#6]

As we can see you're experiencing problems with your connection if an engineer finds no fault then we'd simply send out another engineer if the issue remained the same and wouldn't charge you a call-out fee.

We robustly defend all engineer charges before accepting them from our suppliers, and if an engineer charge is valid we'd apply it to your account within 90 days of the fault investigation closing usually based on the final result of the investigation.

Unfortunately we cannot ask our suppliers to change the settings on your line(Apart from removing banding if it meets criteria) as we don't contact Openreach directly, we'd go through BTwholesale and this isn't something they can request. 

Let me know if you'd still like to cancel the engineer visit.

Thanks.

[#7]

"this isn't something they can request"

It is.

An engineer did it while he was stood in my office. We watched it change when I rebooted my router.

If you look through the long list of support Q & As you will see that it's been done a few times at my request.

It's there in black and white.

I accept that there would be a charge if the fault was on my premises and £65 would be relatively cheap for someone to point out where that fault was but after 6 visits no fault with my wiring or router was found.

I've had a new master socket, a new outside box thing. I've had 'dry joint down the road' 'possible moisture ingress' a bit further on 're-did a dodgy joint round the corner' to the last diagnosis by a senior manager that I'm just 'too far from the cabinet to support more than 34999' and the kit at the exchange was downgrading my line until it was not erroring.

'That's all you're going to get mate'

That's why Plusnet released me from the contract, because they were told by BTW that's all they could supply.

Since the last visit the router hasn't moved, the socket hasn't moved, absolutely nothing has changed at my end.

Nothing.

It was working (for three and a half weeks) at full speed 37 meg download from Usenet, Netflix was working, iPlayer was working, just a few downstream CRC errors over that time, then it just stopped working.

To attempt to charge a customer if an engineer is unable to diagnose and rectify a problem with BTW's service is nonsensical.

Quite simply, I'd like to receive the service I'm paying for at the level agreed at the commencement of the contract.

[#8]

"this isn't something they can request"

It is.

An engineer did it while he was stood in my office. We watched it change when I rebooted my router.

As per my previous response, an engineer can call DCoE to do this. We simply cannot for fibre lines.

If you look through the long list of support Q & As you will see that it's been done a few times at my request.

I'll review this and pass feedback on internally where appropriate as we shouldn't be advising we've done something we cannot do. Is it possible that an adviser changed these settings when you on ADSL not Fibre?

I accept that there would be a charge if the fault was on my premises and £65 would be relatively cheap for someone to point out where that fault was but after 6 visits no fault with my wiring or router was found.

I've had a new master socket, a new outside box thing. I've had 'dry joint down the road' 'possible moisture ingress' a bit further on 're-did a dodgy joint round the corner' to the last diagnosis by a senior manager that I'm just 'too far from the cabinet to support more than 34999' and the kit at the exchange was downgrading my line until it was not erroring.

'That's all you're going to get mate'

That's why Plusnet released me from the contract, because they were told by BTW that's all they could supply.

Since the last visit the router hasn't moved, the socket hasn't moved, absolutely nothing has changed at my end.

Nothing.

It was working (for three and a half weeks) at full speed 37 meg download from Usenet, Netflix was working, iPlayer was working, just a few downstream CRC errors over that time, then it just stopped working.

To attempt to charge a customer if an engineer is unable to diagnose and rectify a problem with BTW's service is nonsensical.

Quite simply, I'd like to receive the service I'm paying for at the level agreed at the commencement of the contract.

I understand this. If you would like us to leave it here then I am happy to do this. However if you would like further investigation then we need to arrange another engineer visit in order to progress the fault.

With regards to a possible call-out charge I don't see how we can charge you for a no-fault found call out when we can clearly see there's a problem. 

[#9]

Is it possible that an adviser changed these settings when you on ADSL not Fibre?

No. Emphatically, no.

I was on ADSL for about 3 years, never had an issue, never had an engineer out until download speeds dropped from ~17meg to a few KB/s. That propmted me to contact Plusnet for the first time since the failed install debacle and I was told the speed drop was due to fibre being made available in my area. I was subsequently offered an upgrade. If the speed hadn't dropped I'd be unaware of the availability of fibre and would be in blissful ignorance but at least I would have a working internet connection.

an engineer can call DCoE to do this

Plusnet can ask BTW/DCoE/whoever to do this. Try it, see if it fixes the 'fault'.

I double dare you

I don't see how we can charge you for a no-fault found call out when we can clearly see there's a problem. 

That's the nonsensical bit I was on about. If you have to go through with sending out an engineer instead of instructing BTW/whoever to set upstream to fastpath then do so. Friday PM will be fine if the appointment is still available but I'm not paying £65 for them to find no fault with their kit when their kit is telling them there's a fault and no court in the land would agree that's fair.

Quite why that threat is in the wording of your appointment booking system is baffling.

[#10]

Right, switched everything off, switched it back on again and so far, so good. Downloads working, line appears to be stable.

Hold off on the appointment until further notice/until the modem arrives.

[#11]

Plusnet can ask BTW/DCoE/whoever to do this. Try it, see if it fixes the 'fault'.

I double dare you 

We don't speak with DCoE, we don't even have a contact number for them.

Against my better judgement I've asked our suppliers this and the BTwholesale agent has advised and I quote:

"I am afraid anoush, we can not change profile for Fiber circuits. For these circuits, we suggest CPs to get an SFI assigned and they will suggest and make changes accordingly."

That's the nonsensical bit I was on about. If you have to go through with sending out an engineer instead of instructing BTW/whoever to set upstream to fastpath then do so. Friday PM will be fine if the appointment is still available but I'm not paying £65 for them to find no fault with their kit when their kit is telling them there's a fault and no court in the land would agree that's fair.

Quite why that threat is in the wording of your appointment booking system is baffling.

Apologies for any inconvenience and confusion caused by the wording of the engineer charging statement. It's one of the few scripts we use, it's a standard statement for any engineer visit.

Right, switched everything off, switched it back on again and so far, so good. Downloads working, line appears to be stable.

Hold off on the appointment until further notice/until the modem arrives.

Let me know if you need any further help.

[#12]

I've updated the open question, fingers crossed the modem plays nicely

[#13]

Fingers crossed. I'll respond to your ticket shortly.

[#14]

Seems there is some really odd effects at play here.

DLM makes changes to your line based on algorithms that try to balance speed and performance with reliability.

So nearly all of the speed changes, interleaving changes, moves to fastpath you are seeing is DLM's response to conditions on your line.

If you are getting an Openreach modem it may be worth seeing if you can use software called DSLSTATS with it. I have an Openreach HG612 running custom firmware and use DSLSTATS to monitor my line.

It may also be worth logging SNRM (up and down) over a time period to see what it does.

Secondly, if a big part of the problem is due to errors on the line, there are some tests you can do. I had a similar issue several years ago and plugged the modem into the master socket with a battery powered laptop to monitor stats. I started turning off mains powered equipment to see if the error rate went down (it did, and I found what was injecting the noise and producing the errors).

There may be issues with your line beyond your control but I think I would be trying to find out more about the noise. For example, does the number of errors increase consistently, or does it come in bursts?

One thing I find very confusing is that everything seems to work at 34999, but not slightly above. That is very odd. Also that everything works when upstream is on fastpath but not interleaving. Fastpath is more prone to errors than with interleaving on.

So all a bit confusing, but I would try going down the stats route to try and put some metrics on what you are seeing. If none of that interests you, keep going with the engineer approach. 

Oh, and trying another modem is a must, just to rule that out.

Best of luck.

[#15]

No REIN, no SHINE. The router can detect that.

That was investigated around engineer number 4 who was surprised that my router could detect that.

The only thing that was different before the connection went bits up is actual heavy rain.

It's been dry for months here then it tipped it down over the weekend.

Whether that's caused issues on the actual copper line which the router has detected and has caused it to have a fit is possible.

trying another modem is a must

Agreed, trying anything is a must even if that points to a rubbish/broken modem or even, heaven forfend, user error.

Wouldn't be the first time and probably won't be the last.

I've been online since the early 90's and I've a) never experienced anything like this and b) never been beaten.

TO WAR!