FAO: CRT -- ECI Modem Latency Problem with G.INP

[#1]

From numerous G.INP connection stats that I have seen, I agree with chrcoluk's summary & InterZoom's 'experiment' also appears to confirm the same.
By "incompatible firmware", for the purpose of unambiguous clarity, we are specifically discussing G.INP compatibility here, not general incompatibility.

There may also be an issue with some Huawei DSLAM versions as mentioned in the G.INP thread, even when using G.INP compatible modem firmwares.

[#2]

Regarding the ECI there is incompatible firmware where it will not be possible to establish a connection. Kitz has posted an excellent write up on this:
[quote=http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15283.msg284199.html#msg284199]
The problems with BT Openreach ECI modems.

ECI modem - Issue 1
8th Jan 2015: ECI modems with old firmware connected to a G.INP enabled DSLAM, will appear to have sync but not able to get a PPP session.
Problem
ECI modems cannot to connect to the Internet.  Sync light is on.
Solution
EU's will need to contact their ISP to arrange an Openreach Engineer to perform a DLM reset on the line.  This should remove the ReTX profile and allow the ECI modem to sync up and be able to download the latest firmware.  
Openreach engineers are only allowed to perform a DLM reset if a hard fault has been found.  A faulty ECI modem is considered a hard fault.  
Note:  If you have internet access using the modem, then it will have been updated with the latest firmware. Issue 1 is separate to issue 2 and where a lot of people are mixing up facts
 
ECI modem - Issue 2  
Large increase in latency and reduction in connection speed.
Problem
Users with ECI modems are reporting doubling of latency and large decrease in sync speed.
We are seeing ever increasing numbers of users complaining of massive increases in ping times such as 9ms > 30ms > 50ms and loss of sync speed anything up to 15Mbps.  Users who are literally next to the cab and previously syncing at a full 80Mbps with no interleaving have seen speeds plummet to 67Mbps.
Solution
As yet there is no fix.  BT have not responded to any enquiries about this.
Calling out an Openreach engineer for a request for DLM reset is of no use.  DLM resets either will not take or will not stick.

Due to lack of an official response, we can only conclude that it would appear that the ECI modems are not compatible with g.inp and the above firmware 'fix' that was rolled out, was simply to enable the modem to connect to the BT network.  
Any lines which are connected using an non-compatible g.inp modem/router appear to default to a DLM profile that applies fairly heavy interleaving and error correction overheads.
Whether this is by design or not is unknown.  It is known that BT first commenced G.INP trials on a limited number of lines in 2013, which is before the DLM changes in Nov 2014 due to the ASSIA court case†.
The only solution we can offer is:
1). Wait and see if BT give an official statement and announce if they are able to release yet another f/w update for the ECI modems and/or if they can make changes to the DLM system which is less harsh for non-compliant modems.
2). Purchase a compatible modem/router.
Use of a compatible G.INP modem/router returns the DLM to normal within 24hrs or so.
AAISP are still waiting for a reply - link.
Rumours

• 1) "The f/w not been updated because the modem is connected to a line that is attached to a DSLAM that does not use the same chipset as the modem".
  False:  G.INP is standardised technology regulated by the ITU. G.998.4 should work regardless or not of the manufacturers chipset.  If its not working then it doesnt have G.998.4 technology enabled.  Also if the modem hadn't received the update then it wouldn't be able to connect to the internet.


• 2) "The modem's firmware is not updated until the DSLAM has had it's firmware updated."
  False: BT have been rolling out ECI modem firmware for a good while.  Software is updated automatically using the BTAgent and/or VLAN 301 regardless or not if the DSLAM has been upgraded


• 3) "The modem's firmware is updated when the DSLAM pushes the firmware onto the modem".
  False: BT have been rolling out ECI modem firmware for over a year.  Software is updated automatically using the BTAgent and/or VLAN 301 regardless or not if the DSLAM has been upgraded.  The upgrade for the DSLAM is an entirely separate process.

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Huawei HG612 modems.
These should be fine and work well as long as they have been upgraded to the latest firmware.
Anyone using an unlocked HG612 should ensure they are using HowlingWolfs latest firmware B030SP08

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Modem Routers known to work with G.INP
See G.INP compatible Modem/Routers for up to date list
<note please follow link in title of this quote for the up to date list>
ASUS DSL-AC68U
Billion 8800NL
Billion 8800AXL
BT HomeHub 5 Type B  (BCM chipset & Software version V0.07.01.0235-BT)
Fritzbox vdsl routers* - 7390 & 7490 are ok.
Netgear DGND3700v1 (Custom firmware: 2015-02-08)
Sky Hub SR102
Talk Talk Super router (Huawei HG635)
Zyxel VMG8324
Zyxel VMG8924

*Unconfirmed if all models

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Modem Routers showing increased latency and lower sync
The first three on the list all contain a similar Lantiq VRX-268 modem chipsets and all seem to be in a similar situation.
BT Openreach ECI modem
BT Homehub 5 Type A (Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204)
TP Link TD W-9980  

09/04/2015 - Update from TP-Link.  
TP-Link are aware of a compatibility issue with the chipset which should be capable of G.INP.    TP-Link R&D are jointly working with Lantiq on finding a solution for the TD W-9980. We will keep you updated

Note that post is being updated as compatibility of other modems is established.

[#3]

Quote from: jelv

[quote=http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15283.msg284199.html#msg284199] We are seeing ever increasing numbers of users complaining of massive increases in ping times such as 9ms > 30ms > 50ms and loss of sync speed anything up to 15Mbps.  Users who are literally next to the cab and previously syncing at a full 80Mbps with no interleaving have seen speeds plummet to 67Mbps.

Quote from: InterZoom

Since this connection is capped at 40Mbps by PlusNet, I don't notice the reduced downstream throughput. But I'd be quite annoyed if I were paying for an 80/20 service. Which is why I don't!

Quite a big c*ck up, really.
Probably explains why the Customer Relations Team hasn't deigned to respond to this thread, despite it being addressed to them.

[#4]

I'm not sure what you expect them to say though?
They have to wait until there is an official comment or statement from OR or BTw. it wouldn't be right for them to put out a statement, only for it to be incorrect or misleading.

[#5]

Since this: http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15283.msg284199.html#msg284199 , linked here: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,138084.msg1219065.html#msg1219065 appears to be the closest to the 'definitive' information available perhaps Plusnet should be using this as a reference to advise customers who believe they have this issue.

[#6]

I'm not expecting them to say anything, Andy. They would have done so by now. I've already adjusted my expectations.
The observation that it's

Quote from: InterZoom

Quite a big c*ck up, really.

was followed by a sentence which very clearly indicated those adjusted expectations.

Ah, the subtleties of English!   
But w23 does make a quite ground-breaking suggestion...   

[#7]

Other than AAISP and possibly Zen, I don't think any other ISPs have commented on it. In fact, I don't think any ISPs even mentioned the retransmission rollout.
There is a ISP forum with OR on Wednesday and I would expect some kind of comment there. Whether this gets passed on to end users though, is up to each individual ISP.
Just looking through SIN 498 (http://www.sinet.bt.com/sinet/SINs/pdf/498v6p0_C.pdf), it does say:

Quote

Configure DSLAM to implement an ESEL value of 30dB and retransmission profile sfaD800_001R16_04U200_001R08_04. Note that this open retransmission/interleaved profile is used to facilitate automated testing and is not used in the BT network. The retransmission parameters used in this profile are defined in Table 7

I still suspect this has more to do with DLM than anything.

[#8]

But it wouldn't be very sensible for me to post on this forum for the attention of another ISP's Customer Relations Team.
They wouldn't be likely to read it... and I wouldn't be their customer...

[#9]

aaaah you have arrived then... I was going to try my ECI again this week but decided against for fear of being HUNG from a rope by the teenagers!
Glad to see you can still use your ECI after the G.INP  profile became active on your line.

[#10]

Perhaps something simple along the lines of

Quote

"We are aware of an issue which can cause slower than anticipated speeds for some of our customers who are using the ECI modems supplied by BT Openreach. We are in discussion with our suppliers and have a meeting on {date} after which we hope to be able to make more information available"

See isnt hard is it?  and much better than leaving customers in the dark.
I don't accept the argument 'other ISPs haven't because some ISP's have!  Plusnet is supposed to be proud of its customer support and its standards have always been higher than the likes of Talktalk etc. 
A fair amount of users are loosing quite a lot of speed and are seeing degradation of their line.
In fact Im surprised the UG isnt pushing for something.  I know if I would be if I were still PUG.. and this is also the sort of thing that they should also themselves be making a statement about. 
Its a pretty poor show that there is nothing any where by PN that recognises there is an issue.  Some could be cynical and say think of the headline speed bandwidth they are saving (not much in the grand scheme of things) but every little helps.

[#11]

I don't think service status updates are one of Plusnet's strong points at the best of times.
There have been various FTTC modem issues in the past and I don't think any of them have resulted in service statuses.
It might be that if you put some kind of statement out there, you then put extra pressure on your support centre with people contacting them. You could also create confusion (I quite a few people that would have no clue whether they had a Huawei or ECI modem).
I am cautiously optimistic that there will be some update next week. In fact, I would be surprised if some ISPs did not have an update already as there used to be weekly calls with OR. Again though, it's up to them what they tell their customers.
On a slightly different note, there are various pilots/trials going on at the moment which end users are unlikely to be aware about. There will be 100+ Plusnet users on a vectoring pilot and I doubt they have been told anything.

[#12]

Kitz has now created a bookmark to the list of modems/routers known to work correctly with G.INP
G.INP compatible Modem/Routers

[#13]

excellent work by kitz, and she does it in her own free time, baffled the lack of similar information from plusnet.

[#14]

Quote

I don't think service status updates are one of Plusnet's strong points at the best of times.

So its our job to remind them that they should be doing then.  Actually we shouldnt have to remind them in the first place.  Its kinda like if you let things slide, then they dont bother.  I'm sure some of the customers who were around in mid 2000's will know what I mean.
This isn't a minor upgrade, this affects peoples line speed and by quite a lot in some cases.

Quote

It might be that if you put some kind of statement out there, you then put extra pressure on your support centre with people contacting them.

No not necessarily.  You point them to a 'discuss on the forum post' and you keep it updated when you have news.
Support staff also point EU's to it.

Quote

You could also create confusion (I quite a few people that would have no clue whether they had a Huawei or ECI modem).

When I originally brought it up, I was saying they should post on the forums. Theres been zilch response so far.  The only person that has got involved was Bob because he'd got the problem too.
Regardless if its done in SS or forums, then those users are less likely to be the novices.  They are either likely going to visit the forums anyhow, and they are likely only to check the SS if they have a problem.  Done like this it should REDUCE enquiries.    I wonder how many people have raised tickets about slow speeds and how many are unhappy at their gaming ping times.    Wouldnt it be better if those people either knew first because it was on the forums (or SS)..  or alternatively it gives CS somewhere to point to as reference.

Quote

I am cautiously optimistic that there will be some update next week.

And it wouldnt hurt for Plusnet to confirm if this, or at the very least acknowledge all the posts on here.
The more you let things slide and make excuses for them, then the more they think it will be ok to do it in the future.
I chose Plusnet specifically because of their superior support and open-ness to the likes of BT and TT etc.  Ive fought long and hard to keep them on their toes.  Ive also got battle-scars you wouldnt believe for putting their point across too.
See I'll stick up for them when they're right, but I'll also poke them when then need it.
Right now Im giving them a poke and saying... hey guys at least give us some feedback, even if its just to let us know that you're aware.   

They won the award for best customer support, so they should maintain and keep those standards high.
What they must never do is rest on their laurels and assume its in the bag for next year.


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Quote

There will be 100+ Plusnet users on a vectoring pilot and I doubt they have been told anything.

Thats exciting news and in days of old they used to like telling their customers things like that.  Im not saying send out a message to all..  but on the forums, and if any of them happened to be forum regs then they could give feedback.  They used to be far more pro-active with the beta stuff.
As an aside, whats happened to PUG these days, do they not get involved in stuff like this.  Obviously I dont mean testing because that depends if they are on one of the newly vectorised cabs.  Is Maurice still about, is he ok?

[#15]

Quote from: chrcoluk

excellent work by kitz, and she does it in her own free time,

Cheers guys...  although FreeTime?  Whats that? 
Is that when I should be sleeping