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Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

runhare
Aspiring Pro
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Registered: 09-10-2007

Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

I'm in the process of upgrading to FTTC from standard ADSL.
I'm a mile form the cabinet and Plus Net have given an estimated max download speed of 10Mb/s whereas if I chose Sky they imply it may be as much as 17Mb/s.
It looks like PN have taken the probable max speed from what are shown as Range B / impacted figures whereas Sky quote the Range A Clean Figures on the BTW  BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER site.
(See  below)
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)            Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

                                            High Low High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean)   17   10.6 1.3       0.8 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted)  13.4   5.3 1.2       0.5 -- Available

WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 1 -- 1 to 3.5   Available
ADSL Max         Up to 1 -- 0.25 to 2 Available

At the moment my max quoted ADSL sync speed on the  checker is up to 1Mb/s but we actually sync at 1.5 Mb/s
it will be interesting to see what the actual rates are!
19 REPLIES
Estragon
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Looks like the High and Low figures from Clean to me  Smiley.
Which is quite amusing, seeing as Plusnet do an engineer install at the master socket with a VDSL2 filter plate, and Sky do a self-install with a dangly filter on any socket you like. Self-install leaving the possibility of star wiring and ring wire problems straight off.
Community Gaffer
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

From the sound of that our estimate is a little more pessimistic than Sky. Realistically the connection speed should be the same as it'll be using the same cabinet and same copper from the cab to your premises.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
davenos
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

I would be a little sceptical of Sky's estimate i moved from them in January (i had ADSL with them for 2.5 years)and they estimated that my line could support the "pro" version they offer and i could get the full 76mbps( i still get letters from them telling me this) when in reality my lines maximum attainable figure is just 42mbps(my line is impacted).
PlusNet told me i could expect around 35mbps and thats pretty much spot on(my profile is 34.1mbps)
runhare
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Not plannning to use Sky but a neighbour is based on Sky's optimism. They see it a  promise of 17.5Mb/s!
KevinG
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Well tell them it isn't!
runhare
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Easier said than done!
Moderator
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

There are no such things as promises or guarantees in Telecommunications Land Wink
Edit: Except in the industry's marketing departments.

Customer and Forum Moderator.

runhare
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Hi.. my install date for FTTC is tomorrow. 31/7/15.
I have been sent a new wireless router, which I admit I ordered,  as I was under the assumption it was necessary . It is a Plus Net branded thingy with fold out red feet. No idea what it is called.
So a couple of questions:
1. Is this device  with red fold out feet any good?
2. Is it any better, or worse than the Plus Net Branded / Techniclour TG582n - which I have found to be quite OK
3. Can I continue to use the TG582n insead of the new thing,  as I would have to set the new thing up with additinal IP address ranges for various devices that I  use - which would be a pain.
4. Is there a single combined FTTC modem/ router that I could buy instead of both the BT FTTC modem and Plus Net router , thus saving on equipment clutter and presumably power usage? If so, what is recommended ? I have a budget of up to £40.00
5. If I do have to use the BT Modem, can I use a standard CAT5 Ethernet cable and so put  a router elsewhere on a much  longer cable, or is there something special about the supplied ethernet cable with red ends?
5. Finally, Kellys are due to do the install. They just phoned. Is there anything I should be looking out for ?
Thanks
Terranova667
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

1. based on what i have read online and forum posts NO
2. Seems to be worse than the 582n which is a feet in itself.
3. yes you can use the 582n although you would have to update the firmware for it to allow fibre to work if it's setup for ADSL,  it will turn one of the Ethernet ports to a WAN port so you will only have three Ethernet ports available afterwards instead of the four.
4.  A Question for those that use a combined unit,  Myself i prefer the separate setup. 
5. I run a Cat6 cable myself but Cat 5e is perfectly fine you can go upto 100m away,  there is nothing special about the cable with the red ends other than it maybe too short depending on how far your router will be from the modem. 
6. Make sure he or she installs a new master socket it should be a filtered MK2 or MK3 and ask them to check that everything is working OK before he / she goes kellys have bee known to just connect the modem to the wall plug the cable into the master socket then go without checking to make sure that the modem is getting sync with the cab. 
runhare
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Thanks for all  that .. The 582n has been fine for me, but I don't have any other property near by . Im in the middle of nowhere and it has no competition . I do fancy a single unit VDSL  modem/ router  though. There is enough clutter to deal with as it is.
Superuser
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Quote
4. Is there a single combined FTTC modem/ router that I could buy instead of both the BT FTTC modem and Plus Net router , thus saving on equipment clutter and presumably power usage? If so, what is recommended ? I have a budget of up to £40.00
That budget is not going to get a NEW VDSL modem/router I'm afraid. The cheapest ones around are the TPLink TD-W9980 and the Billion 8800NL both at around £60ish. There's some useful info on combined units here http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14436.0 .
For your £40 you ought to be able to pick up a BT Home Hub 5 from ebay, they can be used on PN.
jafreer
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Just to add to the other good advice...
1) I haven't used that device, but a LOT of people are having issues with it.
2) I use the TG582n for fibre and although it is a basic router, I find it totally reliable. I have all my port forwarding set up and NEVER need to reboot it. As already said, it will need the fibre firmware, but that should be easy enough to put on. You could try backing up your current configuration then reloading it after the firmware upgrade. Not sure if it will keep the settings (with it being a different firmware), but worth a try. Worst case just reset it back to factory config.
3) See answer 2 above Smiley
4) Combined unit is good for clutter, but I actually prefer the separate units. That way I can try a different router if I want, make router config changes etc, without dropping the VDSL connection. Purely a personal preference though.
5) As already said, the red cable is just a standard ethernet cable so you can use a much longer one. You can also have the modem away from the master socket if required by running an extension (or maybe you requested the extension kit in the order). If the installer fits that, it will only be on the surface (around skirting board etc). Also best not to use existing extension wiring for that (as the typical flat cable is more lossy at VDSL2 frequencies as compared to twisted pair).
6) I had a Kelly install. Just be careful and ensure everything works the way you expect before they leave. You should get a MK3 master socket provided tomorrow (I think it has the better filter components inside it). The MK3 master socket has the extra socket on top (RJ11 though think it also accepts RJ45) that is unfiltered for connecting to the modem (it is not an ethernet port). If you do plan on having the modem a bit further away, or just want a neater install, a cable can be kroned in (IDC connections) to the AB terminals inside the socket. This way you don't have to have an RJ11 cable permanently sticking out the top port of the master socket. It all depends on the location of the modem etc for your particular install.
One last thing, the RJ11 to RJ11 cable that is supplied with the Openreach modem is a flat cable. I recommend using a twisted pair cable for better noise immunity. You can pick one up (e.g. Belkin) for 3 or 4 pounds. This is a 'belt n braces' approach, it doesn't mean it will help, but since that cable is often close to power supplies and sockets etc, it gives your connection a better chance.
Good luck with the install.

runhare
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Thanks .. all very helpful advice!
I'll see what Kellys manage to do tomorrow. Also it will be intresting to see how / or if things improve: ( assumng they do! )
Currently I am seeing this .. ( i told you we were in the middle of nowhere ) on a 6km long line . Which with FTTC will reduce to about 1.6km .
Downstream
Noise Margin:  6.4    dB
Bandwidth:    1504  kbps
Attenuation:  63.5  dB
Power:        16.3  dBm
Errors:
  FEC:  3546828
  CRC:  16165
  HEC:  30166
Failures since last reset:
  LOF:  4
  LOS:  34
  LPR:  0
  ES :  23936

Upstream
Noise Margin:  10.0  dB
Bandwidth:    448    kbps
Attenuation:  31.5  dB
Power:        12.3  dBm
Errors:
  FEC:  6548
  CRC:  1429
  HEC:  N/A

runhare
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Re: Different Fibre Speed Estimates form PN/ BT & Sky

Intial results after connecting up fibre  look promising :
BTW gives 10.69Mbs down and 2.5mbs up