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Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

SCGH
Dabbler
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎06-03-2017

Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

Hi. 

Our master socket is located upstairs in a bedroom.  Our Hub One router is downstairs in the living room.  The previous owner ran the cable (adsl cable I guess it is called) under the floorboards.  This brings internet and the phone line downstairs for us. 

I believe this long cable can cause a slow down in speed, but when I tested it today, the download speed matched the speed directly in the master socket.  There was some loss of upload speed.  

Unfortunately during renovations, the cable has been cut.  We have temporarily repaired the cable, but think that it is probably best to do a proper repair.  We have a few options:

1. Put a junction box where the cut is.  Cheapest option - but could this mean a slower connection downstairs?

2. Run a new adsl cable downstairs.  This is tricky and will require cutting into the plaster wall and patching up.  

3.  Ask Open Reach to move the master socket.  I am not even sure if they would do this as they would need to go through our garage to get into the side of the living room.  

So - option 1 (install a junction box) would be our best option.  But I am no expert, and I wondered what other people think about this?  Is there a better way? An electrician is scheduled is come tomorrow so I need to decide what option to take. 

All advice appreciated.

17 REPLIES
runhare
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 538
Thanks: 64
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Registered: ‎09-10-2007

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

Hi there 

Best bet is to replace the cable. . It can be either phone cable or cat 5 e network cable. Both are cheap. Make sure it is solid copper single strand twisted pair phone or Cat 5 cable.  You only need one pair of wires in the cable. There could be  2 or 3 pairs .

I'm assuming you have a Bt Openreach NTE 5 master  socket with removable faceplate and a test socket.  If you've one of the filtered faceplates even better. If not you should consider getting one.

 

From the master socket if it is an NTE 5 there is provision for extension cabling on the back of the faceplate.  use pins 2 and 5 on the back of the faceplate and run the new cable to the extension socket. Older master sockets require the use of special tool to locate the cables in there seats and can be fiddly. In the extension connect only pins 2&5. Do not bother with wires to pin 3 ( the ringer circuit or bell wire) at either end even if this was previously connected as this isn't required by modern phones and if you've no phone anyway on the extension it will be useless and could slow the broadband down. 

have a look here https://www.mymatevince.com/ . There's are plenty of videos showing how to extend a master socket if you have the patience to watch the video.

 

dont let the electrician remove or alter the incoming connections to the back plate of the NTE5 socket . bT are responsible for all wiring into the back of the master socket up to t he test socket . All extension wiring is your responsibility. 

 

Good luck 

 

 

SCGH
Dabbler
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎06-03-2017

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.


runhare wrote:

Hi there 

Best bet is to replace the cable. . It can be either phone cable or cat 5 e network cable. Both are cheap. Make sure it is solid copper single strand twisted pair phone or Cat 5 cable.  You only need one pair of wires in the cable. There could be  2 or 3 pairs .


 

 

Thanks for your reply.  We actually have run cat6 up along the same route.  We were told to use that as it is shielded, so less chance of interference from the nearby electrical cables.  

Could that be used instead of the cat5?  

 

 

I'm assuming you have a Bt Openreach NTE 5 master  socket with removable faceplate and a test socket.  If you've one of the filtered faceplates even better. If not you should consider getting one.


Hmmm.  I have attached a photo of our master socket - I think this could be a filtered faceplate? 

If this is not a filtered faceplate, is it something I could change myself or would I need an electrician or even Openreach to do it?

 


From the master socket if it is an NTE 5 there is provision for extension cabling on the back of the faceplate.  use pins 2 and 5 on the back of the faceplate and run the new cable to the extension socket. Older master sockets require the use of special tool to locate the cables in there seats and can be fiddly. In the extension connect only pins 2&5. Do not bother with wires to pin 3 ( the ringer circuit or bell wire) at either end even if this was previously connected as this isn't required by modern phones and if you've no phone anyway on the extension it will be useless and could slow the broadband down. 

We do actually have a phone at the end of the extension.  But could leave the existing cable with junction box for the phone line, and run a new cable for broadband.  That would allow us to use the original cable as a backup option in case it is even needed.  

 

 

 

have a look here https://www.mymatevince.com/ . There's are plenty of videos showing how to extend a master socket if you have the patience to watch the video.

Will do.  Thanks!

 


dont let the electrician remove or alter the incoming connections to the back plate of the NTE5 socket . bT are responsible for all wiring into the back of the master socket up to t he test socket . All extension wiring is your responsibility. 

Makes sense.  I'll make sure he does touch it.

runhare
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 538
Thanks: 64
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Registered: ‎09-10-2007

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

Thats an NTE5 master socket yes. But an older model with a filtered faceplate

You should really only run   one pair of wires   from the master  to the extention socket whatever cableyou use. At the moment it looks like you have a cat5e plugged into the broadband scoket. This might not carry the voice component for the phone and if you tried to use it to carry voice you'd be negating the point of the filtering anyway.

Take off the faceplate, you are allowed to do that, and run the extention cabling, unfiltered from pins 2 & 5 on the back of the faceplate

Look at the site I linked you to . he has plenty of examples.

 

 

bmc
Seasoned Pro
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Registered: ‎28-02-2017

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

Does the Hub One need to be downstairs?

 

If you already have a Cat 6 cable in place you could have the router upstairs and use the Cat 6 cable for your computing needs. The phone cable could be repaired to allow use of the phone.

 

Brian

SCGH
Dabbler
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎06-03-2017

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.


runhare wrote:

You should really only run   one pair of wires   from the master  to the extention socket whatever cableyou use. At the moment it looks like you have a cat5e plugged into the broadband scoket. This might not carry the voice component for the phone and if you tried to use it to carry voice you'd be negating the point of the filtering anyway.

 


Hmmmm, don't think it is cat5 as the plug is a lot smaller.  It only has 4 wires in it.  It currently carries the phone and the broadband connection.

SCGH
Dabbler
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎06-03-2017

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.


bmc wrote:

Does the Hub One need to be downstairs?

 

If you already have a Cat 6 cable in place you could have the router upstairs and use the Cat 6 cable for your



Actually, we also wondered if we could move the router upstairs.  Currently downstairs it is connected to our CCTV and Hive Heating Hub.  If it was located upstairs, it would be in my son's bedroom so not really ideal, but perhaps not impossible.

If the router was in my son's room, what sort of device would I need downstairs to for the wired connections?  I imagine I could use a powerline extender to boost the wifi signal. Not sure if powerline extenders are the right option for numerous wired connections though?  Does a Hub extender exist?   

runhare
Aspiring Pro
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Thanks: 64
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Registered: ‎09-10-2007

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

Ok 

let's go for the simple options 

 

a ) put the  router downstairs  upsatirs and connect it to the data socket on the filtered faceplate. This will mean optimal signal for the router from the phone line and is the best place for any router to be situated , i.e. At the master socket. 

Plug in your  cat 5 cable to one of the cat 5 lan sockets on the router. At the other end upstairs  downstairs connect the cat 5  cable to a new wireless access point / 4 port hub ( NOT the same as a router) effectively giving you a second wifi network with spare lan sockets for any other devices you need to connect. 

b) repair the phone line and connect it to the the filtered phone only connections on the back of the  filtered faceplate . You could use a junction box to do the phone cable repair as there will be no broadband signal using the extension phone cable as long as you have connected it to the correct terminals on the back of the faceplate. 

 (Edited to refelect my new understanding of the situation!)

SCGH
Dabbler
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎06-03-2017

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

Thanks. I’ll look into this tomorrow. I have beem searching online for a 4 Ethernet port access point.  Any tiOS on what I should look for - brands, speeds etc?

runhare
Aspiring Pro
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Registered: ‎09-10-2007

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

Netgear , linksys , d link all produce such items. Make sure what you buy is NOT an adsl router . eBay will have dozens for sale pre owned and occasionally new. 

Essentially what you're after is a 4 port Ethernet switch and wireless access point combined unit. 

Security is more important than speed in my opinion. 

Btw : cat 5 cable isn't usually shielded. The protection from interference comes from the twisted pair construction of the cable. 

bmc
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 917
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Registered: ‎28-02-2017

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

You stated in an earlier post you had run Cat6 cable alongside the phone cable. If this is the case then you can put the router upstairs and use the Cat6 cable to connect to an Ethernet switch (say 4 port) downstairs. Any computing devises can then be plugged into the switch.

 

If you're having WiFi reception problems then you could also get a WiFi extender and plug that into the switch downstairs so you have access points up and down. In this case you'd need two power sockets downstairs and one upstairs.

 

I have no experience of these devices but there's plenty of advice online as to what may be suitable.

 

Brian

runhare
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 538
Thanks: 64
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Registered: ‎09-10-2007

Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

You stated in an earlier post you had run Cat6 cable alongside the phone cable. If this is the case then you can put the router upstairs and use the Cat6 cable to connect to an Ethernet switch (say 4 port) downstairs. Any computing devises can then be plugged into the switch

 

With repspect I don't think I'd agree with this as a  best course of action @bmc, (Brian )  as the OP will still need a very good quality phone extension cable wiring to the upstairs socket to which to connect his router.If  this is a short hop it may be no problem, but if its a long one over old wire there may be degraded performance. If the master socket is randomly situated in an inconvenient location I'd suggest a master socket extension,  wired directly between the Faceplate on the first master socket and the extention. 

I'd suggest the best course is to  place the router next to the master socket to get the best performance from the broadband connection.The shorter the cabling from the point of entry into the property to the router the better.

If the OP needs extended wifi coverage I'd use a Cat5/ Cat 6  LAN cable to connect a wifi access point wherever it is needed in the home. Ethernet can be up to 100 metrres logn without suffering degradation in trhoughput . 

I don't like Wi fi Extenders, they often suffer from and even cause interference issues,  degrading performance. Same with Home Plugs - nasty bits of kit !!

bmc
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Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

@runhare

The OP has previously stated the Master Socket is upstairs and that a Cat6 cable has been run alongside the phone cable to the downstairs location.

 

It's on this basis I suggest putting the router upstairs - it will be plugged into the master socket with an Ethernet cable available to bring internet downstairs. I'll defer on the suitability of WiFi extenders as I have no experience of them but could a new WiFi access point work instead?

 

Brian

 

runhare
Aspiring Pro
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Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

The OP has previously stated the Master Socket is upstairs

 

OK - I misread that ! Sorry. I am upside dwon. But my advice remains the same. A wifi access point is the best idea for the DOWNSTAIRS area,  connected via  the ethernet LAN cable, and If it is a 4 port switch /  with Wifi access point combined then that's the most flexible set up.

 Something like this would be more than adequate for arounf £10 on eBay:   Netgear WN604

http://www.netgear.co.uk/business/products/wireless/soho-wireless/wn604.aspx

Baldrick1
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Re: Cabling advice needed - locating Hub on different floor to master socket.

@runhare

Gosh your recommended WAP is long in the tooth. It has only 10/100 Ethernet and a slow 2,4GHz only wireless port. I notice your reticence to recommend a router but I disagree. I would suggest that the OP gets another Hub One or Home Hub 5 from Ebay and turns this into a WAP by following the instructions here: https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Using-a-2nd-Plusnet-Hub1-as-a-Wireless-Access-point/m-p/1385.... This will give the same Ethernet and WiFi performance as currently enjoyed downstairs at a similarly low cost to your Netgear recommendation but with three available Ethernet ports.