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Just the name is closing

SteveA
Pro
Posts: 1,849
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Registered: ‎17-06-2007

Re: Just the name is closing

Well with some help from @bobpullen and some more help tweaking things from the staff at FVS it all seems to be working well now.

 

Some lessoned learned from it ... basically don't submit your TAG transfer until you're sure that the Name Servers at JTN have actually changed... I submitted a change and assumed that it had worked and it hadn't...

SteveA
Pro
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Registered: ‎17-06-2007

Re: Just the name is closing

DNS still seems to be very mixed up - I've had no notifications from here since 22:15 on the 8th and the email validation process on the profile doesn't work (which suggests Plusnet's own DNS servers aren't returning what they should be doing).  Three don't even think my domain exists at the moment.....

 

Edited to add : Its not DNS issues causing email problems - its mad spam filters ... see below.

 

 

SteveA
Pro
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Registered: ‎17-06-2007

Re: Just the name is closing

And something else to be aware of with FVS - they seem to turn on spam filtering that rejects a huge amount of email... including important emails from my bank.. even though I'm using forwarding.

 

Why couldn't JTN just have stayed open?

 

SteveA
Pro
Posts: 1,849
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Registered: ‎17-06-2007

Re: Just the name is closing

OK - anyone who is looking to use FVS.

 

They have quite aggressive spam filters which run on their forwarding...  and I mean aggressive (very simple emails can get rejected as spam) ...so you need to use their Track Delivery tool to see what is being lost... there is no way to maintain a white list

 

And it does look like there were some propagation issues as I woke up this morning to rather a lot of email from these forums!

PeterSoul
Grafter
Posts: 33
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎03-12-2014

Re: Just the name is closing

Bob -- my domain email address & website have always been with JTN & Plusnet (and I still upload pages to plus.net/htdocs/).

But if I go to Domain Names (where your link took me) and log in, it says "Below is a list of the domains currently hosted on your account" -- and nothing is listed.

Nick-EI, you said submit a ticket to us -- but who/where are you, remind me please?

And if, as reported, FVS rejects many incoming emails, what use is that to us?

I am really uneasy about this necessity to move out: things have worked so smoothly for years, but now I'm out of my depth.

PeterSoul
Grafter
Posts: 33
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎03-12-2014

Re: Just the name is closing

Bob -- an update already:

Under (Plusnet) Website Settings / View Your Webstats, it says The following domains are hosted on your PlusNet account: www.username.plus.com.  But the details given above this seem to fit my website www.myname.co.uk, so is that OK?

Under JTN / Control Panel / Change Name Servers, the three boxes against Primary/Secondary/Tertiary are all empty.  Is that OK?

Uneasy is putting it mildly, now.

Nick-EI
Dabbler
Posts: 10
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Registered: ‎30-01-2017

Re: Just the name is closing

@peter, I’m Nick from Easy Internet / FVS

I think there’s a few things that need to be cleared up here with regards to email forwarding.

We do have outbound spam scanning in place, as does any other medium-large web host. If you’re forwarding to Plusnet addresses, then until now, you won’t have been affected by how things have changed in a wider sense with regards to forwarding, as blacklisting etc doesn’t apply, as the mail isn’t being forwarded externally.

What you have to remember is that when you forward email, one server receives it, and then forwards to another server. We can’t forward spam, period, as we’d be instantly blacklisted all over the place, and no-one would be able to receive emails coming from our servers. Due to the incredible volumes of spam these days, this is the number one concern of any email provider, and any hosting company will do whatever they can to prevent it.

As mentioned above, if you’re forwarding a JTN registered domain’s email to a Plusnet address, it goes without saying that Plusnet aren’t going to blacklist JTN’s email server. This isn’t the case when you’re dealing with 2 separate companies. If we just blindly forwarded everything that came in back out to Plusnet, we’d expect them to blacklist us for sending spam pretty quickly, which would then affect *every* customer forwarding to Plusnet. This applies to any email provider.

The war on spam is only getting worse, which is why various technical mechanisms have been implemented in recent years such as DKIM, SPF and so on. The problem with forwarding is that it breaks most of them. There are usually better solutions, for example if you’re forwarding to hotmail and gmail, which the majority of people do, then what we’d recommend is that you have mailbox(es) on our servers, and then setup a POP3 collector at Hotmail of Gmail to pull the email, rather than forward it. All outbound spam scanning is then rendered irrelevant, and it’s far more reliable, and you get the benefit of their anti-spam systems, which lets face it, are the best around. I don’t know if Plusnet offer such a solution.

Excuse the long explanation, I thought it was worth some detail as it’s something all ex JTN customers are going to run into regardless of where you move to. For example, whilst most mail will forward normally with us, we *do* have checks such as ‘does this email sender address actually exist’ and ‘does the email contain a known spam URL’, this may be a new concept if you’ve only ever had a JTN/Plusnet domain/email service.

SteveA
Pro
Posts: 1,849
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Registered: ‎17-06-2007

Re: Just the name is closing

Nick - I think the thing is that for most of us running JTN into Plusnet handing spam has meant working with quarantine folders (or handling spam with our own filters / RBL lookups and spam cop accounts). Moving to FVS is a big learning curve - the FVS mail hosts seem to be a lot more restrictive (emails that have been delivered with no problems for months no longer being delivered, and its not like they're in quarantine... they've basically gone) and although we can see what your system have decided is spam we can't do anything about it.

Technical support from FVS has been amazing and hopefully the Migration from JTN guide will be updated to cover things like the Track Delivery screen and other core functions of the cPanel front end (again a big learning curve from the very much hands off front end of JTN). The ability to get everything set up before initiating the transfer is certainly a selling point and I'm hoping that what I've learned from my move will make my brothers move a lot less problematical.

 

PeterSoul
Grafter
Posts: 33
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Registered: ‎03-12-2014

Re: Just the name is closing

Well, for some of us perhaps, Plusnet has meant not having to think about  spam / quarantine / filters / lost emails / hosting / forwarding / JTN / POP3 / DNS / TAG / Name Servers, much or at all.  That's the first learning-curve.  To me, Plusnet seems to block nearly all spam, and to lose nothing genuine.  I don't understand why a different company needs to work differently.  But if it calls itself Easy Internet / FVS, I suppose that's an attraction!

MauriceC
Resting Legend
Posts: 4,085
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Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Just the name is closing

@SteveA   You can modify the aggressive of the SPAM filtering on FVS.  In CPanel go to the EMail section and look at the Spam Assassin options.  Default is to Auto delete SPAM, but it can be changed.  There are quite a lot of notes on the settings available.

As you've already discovered FVS support is responsive and helpful, so you should be able to overcome the issues with a bit of effort to put you back in control.

 

Maurice

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

SteveA
Pro
Posts: 1,849
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Registered: ‎17-06-2007

Re: Just the name is closing

@MauriceC SpamAssassin is set to not delete and its backed off as far as possible. I suspect that it doesn't affect email forwarding.

lyndonp
Grafter
Posts: 124
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Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Just the name is closing

That was trhe impression I got from Nick's comment further up - email domain forwarding is filtered and there is no user control over it and the spam assasin filters would only work if you have a mail box with FVS

Nick-EI
Dabbler
Posts: 10
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Registered: ‎30-01-2017

Re: Just the name is closing

Peter, you raised an important point above which could do with some clarification for others - with the existing JTN/Plusnet setup, there's no forwarding in the normal sense, anti-spam is controlled on your Plusnet address, as JTN forwarding doesn't filter anything (effectively, in reality I don't know their full setup, but there's no point in JTN filtering if going to Plusnet as JTN would never be blacklisted by Plusnet). We don't manage the mailbox and what goes into your spam folder, that's further down the chain when it arrives at Plusnet. It's a very different kettle of fish compared to normal email forwarding between 2 different companies.

When using a 3rd party (say, us) for forwarding, we can't just direct spam in Plusnet's spam box as you're used to - as far as we're concerned, we're just forwarding to a plusnet address, we can't control what happens to it at Plusnet's incoming mail server, and as previously mentioned we can't risk forwarding on spam.


If you used your mailboxes on your domain (created and held on our servers) instead of forwarding to Plusnet, *then* we would/could route suspected spam to your spam box with us, and Plusnet would have nothing to do with it.

PeterSoul
Grafter
Posts: 33
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Registered: ‎03-12-2014

Re: Just the name is closing

Nick -- "anti-spam is controlled on your Plusnet address": well, exactly, and controlled very well, apparently!  Ideally, then, I need to find a home/host that controls it in the same way...

Anyway, are you saying that I could download my domain emails (to peter@myname.co.uk) direct from FVS?  Even with Plusnet remaining my ISP?  And with their continuing, I hope, to host my website (www.myname.co.uk)?  I don't remember seeing that suggestion before.

And then some/all of my spam would go into an accessible mailbox at your place?  Or would come to me?  (By the way, the email package I now use on my PC, OEClassic, doesn't seem to have any spam or junk boxes or filtering -- but is otherwise an excellent throwback to OE/WM/WLM, and independent of MS.)

Nick-EI
Dabbler
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Registered: ‎30-01-2017

Re: Just the name is closing

"Anyway, are you saying that I could download my domain emails (to peter@myname.co.uk) direct from FVS?  Even with Plusnet remaining my ISP?  And with their continuing, I hope, to host my website (www.myname.co.uk)?  I don't remember seeing that suggestion before."

That's right, you'd have a spam folder which you have control over in the same you do with Plusnet now, it'd no longer be forwarded to Plusnet. That doesn't affect your ISP service from Plusnet at all, they're not related. Your Plusnet email address would still exist, it just wouldn't receive forwarded mail from peter@myname.co.uk. When you download peter@myname.co.uk emails from our server if you did this, you'd have a spam folder, in a similar vein to Plusnet. It can work in various ways, suffice to say you can still access it.

I haven't seen OEClassic before, just had a quick look at it, looks quite simple and user friendly I must say.