Is there a charge if you refuse the installation on the day?

[#1]

Openreach aren't yet in our road so I was tentatively looking to move to Zen with City Fibre which is in the road. When I spoke to Zen, they said that if we weren't happy with the proposed installation route, then we would have to pay £120 for the engineer to basically go away again.

This then got me thinking. I have been with Plusnet for 25 years and am prepared to wait for Openreach and will likely recontract on SOGEA for the time being. When the time comes, if Openreach do lay the cables, what is the policy with Plusnet with regard to installation in terms of a charge if we aren't happy with the proposed installation route and refuse the installation? It seems there is no way of getting a pre-survey in advance.

There are a number of questions I have with the installation. Also, do they install to the first floor up the outside wall? What I was thinking was that if Openreach did come at some stage and we weren't happy, then perhaps they could advise us what changes we needed to make and come again as I know that one day copper wires will disappear altogether. But I don't really want to be stuck with a cancellation charge if you see what I mean.

[#2]

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Full Fibre to Everything Else

[#3]

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@Annie wrote:

, if Openreach do lay the cables, what is the policy with Plusnet with regard to installation in terms of a charge if we aren't happy with the proposed installation route and refuse the installation? It seems there is no way of getting a pre-survey in advance.

Even with a pre-survey and sign off (I had a 'KCI2' 'difficult' installation where BT came round to check things first and get sign-off on the digging) the folks on the day can have different ideas.

Of course 'different' can be good or bad different.

[#4]

Openreach surveys dont really mean much going on my past experience dealing with them.

I had one earlier this year as my property returns KC12 assure, I agreed to the cable route through the front garden on the survey plan sent to me that was signed & emailed back. Then Openreach decided not to bother turning up on the date they had booked, told Plusnet all outside works where completed & when I raised this lack of anything happening outside with Plusnet, Openreach turned around & said " a second survey is required "

I asked a CityFibre engineer working nearby a few days ago about installing in to my property, he popped along when free & explained where the cable comes in on the type of house I have plus the route likely to be taken through the front garden. 

[#5]

I am no longer with Plusnet. I moved to Zen full fibre last year as I had heard good reviews about them and their Fritzbox router allowed me to keep my landline without resorting to a separate VOIP provider with additional kit. My existing phone just plugs into the back of the router which has proper ATA adapter built in.

Anyway, my real point is that Zen uses City Fibre to get the fibre to me. They utilised the existing BT Openreach 50mm (?) duct that supplied the BT service to my house. When I ordered the Zen connection they noted that it was an underground feed via a duct and said that CF would visit twice to ensure installation was possible on the allotted day. They did say that if there were considerable issues the installation might get delayed whist those were sorted (e.g the need to unblock a duct under the highway etc and the need for permission to dig there),The day after the order was taken by Zen, City Fibre turned up to ensure that the duct was not blocked and pulled a mini duct through. The duct was congested but they managed to get the job done. If they had not been able to do so they said they said they would have passed it to another crew to unblock the duct. On installation day another CF crew turned up and blew their fibre back through that mini duct to their street cabinet and then put a brown junction box on to the outside wall next to the now disused grey BT Openreach box having asked me where I wanted the ONT installed in the house. They drilled the wall and connected through to the ONT on the inside. Mine was simple to do as the ONT was almost directly inside from the junction box, but my neighbours had installtions where the ONT was not directly through the wall and, in both cases, CF ran an external fibre cable to where they would go through the wall to the ONT (in one case to the back of the house).

Another friend, using Zen vis CF, served via an overhead route, had no issues getting CF to install the ONT at a location in his house completely remote from the old BT socket.

I never encountered any suggestion from Zen that I was liable to be charged if I did not agree to the CF initially proposed installation route. It was for me to agree things on installation day with the CF technicians and come to an agreement as to the best possible practicable solution.

Is the issue that you are served neither overhead nor underground via a duct, and so you will need some dig to install the fibre? Unless you are wanting something impracticable I would have thought you could come to an agreement with CF on the day whatever the installtion route. I doubt that CF are any more difficult to deal with than Openreach would be if they are to provide the service.

Good luck.

[#6]

Thank you for all the replies. Very strange that Zen told me that if I refused the installation on the day I would be liable for the charge. However, I did specifically ask this question so I wonder if they don't generally tell people as a rule.

The queries I have are that the current copper wire cable comes into my house into the hallway with no socket nearby. It also is routed around the front of our next door neighbours' house so this isn't a convenient option. I would like the ONT to be in our top front bedroom where I have a desktop PC plugged into the router via ethernet, a NAS drive and my VOIP ATA.

The entry point from the pavement isn't at ground level inside the garden and there's a well established hedge (40 years) all the way around the garden where we would want the cable routed. Then there's a path with a drain and a house wall which has a lip on it. 

Is it possible to attach the beginning of the cable to the outer wall and run it to the corner or does it need to feed straight into the property?

The top window is where I want the cable to come into the house. The router sits on a shelf in the corner to the left of the window.

Can the cable come across the path or does it need to be up from the ground? We do not want to dig up the path, especially as drains run underneath. We could perhaps build a support to attach the cable to as it goes across the path.

The wall behind the hedge is ours so maybe the cable could be attached to the wall or laid underneath the front of the hedge. I would imagine there will be a lot of roots so digging down probably wouldn't be a good idea. We don't want to take up the brick paviours.

[#7]

Your installation does look complicated compared with mine. 

The main issue seems to be to get from the CF pavement access to the house wall,.where the junction box would be fitted. From there, getting up to the bedroom should be relatively simple - I would expect CF to run external fibre from that junction box and go through the wall to an ONT in the bedroom. I doubt the small lip on the wall will be significant issue.

To get from the pavement to the house wall is more problematic. I do not know if CF would run a  small duct up the external wall or would want to go through the wall just below pavement level and then up and across the paved area or round the edge of it. Possibly you could lay a duct for them to use across the garden to the house wall using an acceptable route ( I do not know where exactly the CF pavement access aligns with the garden paving/hedging). Nor do I know what diameter of duct would be needed but the mini ducts they used around here through the main ducts were only 8mm diameter and so a 30mm/40mm duct with appropriate radiused bends should be adequate.  But it all depends on what CF think. Perhaps others on these forums might know what is required.

Has anyone else nearby had a CF installation with similar issues? Is there an ongoing CF installation nearby where you could talk to one of their technicians?

If the existing OR feed also comes from underground, they would have similar problems assuming they do get round to building their network in your street - it might be in their "too difficult" category! If it is overhead then things would be much easier but you want to avoid having to attach cables to your neighbours property as that requires written permission. (wayleave).

Unfortunately, I do think you need to let CF visit to decide what they can do.

[#8]

In answer to your question: "Is there a charge if you refuse the installation on the day?"

PlusNet may well view the refusal as a failure to provide access for the engineer to carry out the work which in turn means you may be liable to a charge of £65

[#9]

Thank you for your reply @jgb . As far as going through from the front to the back of the garden we were considering laying some ducting behind the hedge adjacent to the wall as long as we can get a clear run all the way through. Do you know what material should be used? Is plastic any good? The section in the front wall is probably going to be more of a challenge.

We saw City Fibre being installed the other day across the road so we asked one of the men to come and take a look. He was talking about digging up paviours and the pathway in front of the house where the drains are. Later that day my husband spoke to another CF chap who was sitting in his van so didn't see the property but he sounded more flexible. It's very difficult when you don't have the power to ask them out to take a look until the installation day.

We shall probably renew with Plusnet again this time on a SOGEA connection and place the landline on VOIP. If/when we spot the Openreach people in the street we may have a word with them to see what their thoughts are.

@DerekW If we do eventually go with Plusnet for FTTP then at least £65 isn't as bad as £120 if we have to refuse the installation on the day and make further changes before they come back.

[#10]

@Annie  Sorry, I do not know if there is a particilar type of duct that should be used.

However a quick google found this site BT Ducting - Telecoms & Openreach Duct - JDP    I am sure there are others.

If CF are going to dig up paving etc, then there will probalby be more than one visit as such tasks are not usually done by the technicians that actually install the fibre and make the connection to your house. Putting the fibre in its mini duct through some pre-provided ducting would seem a much simpler job, but it would be their decision to make.

[#11]

Thanks once again @jgb