Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

[#1]

Removing the bell wire (pin 3) will remove the possibility that it might cause degradation of the broadband signal.

The colours of this wires strongly suggests that the extension wiring is not twisted pairs and is therefore quite unsuitable for use as an extension for using with the modem.

Given that you do not want to run cat 5 cable from the modem at the master socket, your best option remains quality Ethernet over power adapters.

[#2]

hi

so I would need to remove that bell wire on a hunch more or less. Because it might not change anything? Furthremore, if removed, will the extension still work at all? For the phone I mean?

[#3]

This is not so much a hunch as a well proven issue - IF there is degradation of the broadband signal with the bell wire connected, removing it usually improves things.

A filter connected to the extension to the phone will regenerate the ring signal.

[#4]

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@Townman wrote:
@Baldrick1,

How do you draw that conclusion?

It looks as though there are 3 wires connected to the extension face plate. If that’s correct then the bell wire is connected which can degrade the broadband signal even if

The colours of the wires in the extension cable are not clear, but they do not look like twisted pair wires - again not ideal for optimal broadband performance.

If the above is correct and the extension is not required, removing it removes a potential for degrading the broadband signal.

My reasoning goes like this:

1. Back in message 37 the OP confirmed the modem/router was installed in the hall, that is, next to the master socket.

2. The photographs show, as far as I could ascertain, that the extension cable is connected to the filtered phone output. I therefore argued that it did not matter if the bell wire was still connected. Neither did it require a twisted extension cable.

If my first assumption is wrong and the OP now wants to feed the router from the socket on the end of the extension cable then I agree that the extension cable and its connections to the filtered faceplate are totally unsatisfactory. In this case I agree that it requires the master socket switching to an unfiltered type, a proper twisted pair extension cable (minus the bell wire) and the socket on the end of the extension cable fitted with.a microfilter.

Alternatively the router could be left in the hall and an Ethernet cable run into the living room alongside the telephone extension wire and an Ethernet switch installed in the living room if required.

[#5]

I think it’s a mute point that the bell wire is on the filtered side of the socket. It can still act as an aerial, which is not desirable and with filtered face plates is redundant.

As for moving the router, the extension wire is entirely unsuitable.

[#6]

@Townman

We are totally in agreement regarding the extension cable being totally unsuitable for feeding the router.

I also agree that it is unlikely that the bell wire will be required on the basis that few (if any) modern telephones require it. You say that it's not required as filtered face plates makes it redundant. This is true in situations where the ring wire is required and the filter is on the end of an extension cable. This is due to the ring capacitor being included in the filter. However this situation is different in that the extension cable is connected to the phone output of the filter, hence the bell wire is connected to the filtered bell capacitor. You question whether the bell wire is filtered by the faceplate. I agree that this is a moot point and may well depend on the manufacturer. The only circuits I have come across are from ADSL Nation. These are filtered as shown on these schematics.

Having said all this I do agree with you that it's unlikely to be required so can be disconnected.

[#7]

Hi

thanks for your reply. Just because I´m confused: so detaching the bell wire will not impede the function of the phone as such just the ring?

[#8]

If you have a modern phone it should not make any difference to the phone whatsoever. It is a left over from the days of bells on phones. If you just pull the orange wire vertically out on the slot you can always put it back if you have a weird phone that needs it, but it's unlikely.

Personally because it's filtered I don't think it's necessary to remove it but you never know with these things..If your phone needed it then yes the phone line would work but when some-one rang the 'bell' (read sounder) would remain silent so you would not know that you are being called..

[#9]

@fred5

As far as I'm aware the Bell wire is now totally redundant so can be disconnected as it is a possible source of interference (it may, or may not, make a difference). If you do disconnect the wire it needs to be done both at the Master socket and all extensions. You can search online for information on the Bell wire (and indeed phone wiring diagrams).

If I recall correctly this whole thread is about connecting in another room away from the Master socket. Is it possible to run an Ethernet cable between the two locations?

Brian

[#10]

Hi guys

thanks for your help. I´m gonna pull the orange cable as described on both ends, later today and see if it improves or impedes anything.

Yes generally, in regards to the theme of this thread, given that I can´t use the extension line and I´m not willing to use powerline. I will run an ethernet cable through to the living room. So the setup is planned like this: modem in the hall way, ethernet cable into the living room into a 2nd switch for Wifi and LAN. On that Note:

for the main router I planned to upgrade from the HUB one to either an ASUS DSL- AC 52u, 56u or 55u, no idea what the real difference is. I heard these are mediatek chips and that broadcom does a better job, hence would the TP-Link VR600 be a better choice?

BW

Fred 

[#11]

@bmc

If the bell wire is not required by the phone then it will be unused and therefore open circuit at the phone plug. Bearing in mind that the bell wire is closely coupled capacitively throughout the length of the extension cable can you explain what you gain by disconnecting it from the pin that is left open circuit at the phone end?

I have already covered the option to run an Ethernet cable in parallel with the phone cable.

[#12]

@Baldrick1

Some where deep in the dark recess of my memory I recall reading that the wire needs to be disconnected at both ends for extensions to work. This is from years ago when I was researching how to fit faceplates to my Master and extension sockets.

Whatever I did I got it to work with the replacement faceplates!!!

Brian

[#13]

@Baldrick1

I think you answered your own question...

the bell wire is closely coupled capacitively

Leaving it connected at one end in effect makes it a capacitor with respect to the untwisted pair.

@bmc is very correct - it need disconnecting at both ends … something I had forgotten … and ought to revisit on my own installation.

[#14]

You will never convince me that a wire connected to an unused pin is any different to removing the wire from the unused pin.

I can understand that if an extension lead is connected to an unfiltered incoming telephone line and hence the bell wire would enter the microfilter then of course the bell wire should be removed at both ends. In this scenario a new bell capacitor is fitted in the microfilter anyway. The point I have unsuccessfully been trying to make is that this is not the arrangement in this case.

Anyway, I give up, let’s leave it at that.

[#15]

Hi

no worries, I will disconnect on both ends.

in regards to my other question

for the main router I planned to upgrade from the HUB one to either an ASUS DSL- AC 52u, 56u or 55u, no idea what the real difference is. I heard these are mediatek chips and that broadcom does a better job, hence would the TP-Link VR600 be a better choice?

BW

Fred