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BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

Voxmagna
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Registered: ‎24-11-2023

BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

I've been a PN customer for years but word that Openreach are migrating to VOIP over fibre and not using copper have got me thinking as my PN contract finishes October 2024. I've had some help from PN customer services, but not got all the answers. I don't want to consider renewing the same contract twith PN, hen find my landline phone service is taken away mid contract.

At the moment I have PN unlimited fibre inc. line rental at 34Mb/s and I know my short run of copper to the Openreach box will do 80Mb/s. I use the POTs phone to receive calls from elderly and disabled friends who still use their landlines. I don't make calls and use a mobile contract for that. I'm happy with 34-80Mb/s.

 

Virgin Media have just installed their full fibre connection on my house boundary.  Although I don't make landline calls, I want to keep my landline number to receive calls. I use  BT DECT phones for convenience around my house. What options have I got?

Can I have a PN fibre FTTC package keeping the short BT landline, but migrate my landline number and calls to a Home VOIP service provider and use a VOIP gateway connected to a DECT phone master? I thought all BT landlines were referenced to a phone number?

 

For full FTTH  I would need a service provider with a fibre junction outside my house. At the moment that's Virgin, or BT/Openreach would have to run fibre from their box to my house. The latter sounds expensive. The Virgin option still requires additional but a shorter fibre from their pavement box to my house, which sounds like costs for a 'survey 'and the work? Both these options still mean migrating POTS to VOIP and AFIK only BT will provide the complete equivalent home user phone infrastructure and broadband service? At this moment I've not heard any plans from PN to bundle a VOIP service with their fibre options.

I'm not enthusiastic about VOIP and I suspect I'll be losing clear speech and getting low or variable bit rate as per my mobile phone?

 

What are other members faced with losing their POTS speech service thinking?

 

Thanks

13 REPLIES 13
Baldrick1
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

Moderator's note:
Thread moved from Broadband to Everything Else.

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MisterW
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

but word that Openreach are migrating to VOIP

Openreach are not migrating to voip. They are dropping the copper based phone service but are NOT providing a voip service. Its up to the ISPs to decide if they are providing a voip service.

Can I have a PN fibre FTTC package keeping the short BT landline, but migrate my landline number and calls to a Home VOIP service provider and use a VOIP gateway connected to a DECT phone master? I thought all BT landlines were referenced to a phone number?

Yes, you can change to FTTC without phone (confusingly called Fibre!) and then (after the change) migrate your landline number to voip. The new Fibre and Full fibre packages are not referenced to a phone number.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

robsinglehurst
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

Have had exactly the same thoughts recently and have now taken up PNs upgrade offer and have switched to their Fibre option which is just over copper pair - my Hub Two arrived yesterday, all connected and had a call out of the blue - well after some late night googling and a company called "Clear Tone" are porting my landline to VOIP on 10th June - it has cost me £120 + VAT for the next 2 years service for unlimited calls to the "landline" which is diverted to a mobile number of your choice complete with a customisable voice menu system. I feel pretty confident that it will do what it says on the can. 🙂🙂
bmc
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

@Voxmagna 

Have a look at the following. If it doesn't say BWC FTTP in the left hand column then OR have not installed Full Fibre to your property.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

 

If this is the case you either need to move to Virgin to get faster speeds (not sure about their phone package) or stay with PN with an internet only connection (called SOGEA) with a phone service from an independant VOIP supplier. There are many to choose from but A&A get good reviews on this Forum.

https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-information/

 

For the time being you will be able to renew your current service (internet + phone) when the time comes by phoning PN.

 

Brian

 

 

Voxmagna
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

Thanks all. Yes I came across SoGea (and FTTC) but the difference confused me. AFIK. FTTC broadband still uses existing copper lines from OpenReach requiring an active phone line. SoGEA delivers the same broadband service without the phone service on the line. For a simple mortal like me, I think that means both get broadband from the cabinet, Both use Openreach copper connection between the house and cabinet, and max speeds will be the same, limited by the length of copper pair to the cabinet. But in the case of SoGEA theres no connection between the cabinet and BT PSTN?

But Openreach/BT still own the copper from house to cabinet so why pays for that if there's no 'Line rental'? I'm not going to pay the same 'Line rental' or have it bundled in when I'm not using the PSTN system for calls and paying for a VOIP service.

 

Therefore if I accept POTs over copper PSTN is going and could go after a contract is started or renewed after my PN contract is up in October I can't rely on what PN may tell me during contract and could be stuck unable to migrate my landline number? Therefore, I should consider Virgin full fibre to home or PN SoGEA and in both cases given the uncertainty, migrate my landline phone number to a least cost basic VOIP, just to retain my landline number for incoming calls?

If I start a new contract with PN and have made the provision to switch to VOIP at the time, there should be no future surprises. I also worked out VOIP services offer voicemail mailbox and call redirection or voice to text email. What I've learned so far is most VOIP services charge more to call mobiles? Since my outgoing calls will still be via my unlimited mobile service, I won't be going for an expensive VOIP package and I might still be able to use a Freefone call overide provider for some international calls?

Plenty to think about. Thanks.

markhawkin
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

@Voxmagna Assuming you are happy to do so, it is most likely at the end of your contract that you can get another 18 months out of your current arrangement (you won't be able to if you want to change it in any way).

It is possible to change to VoIP and the call quality is considerably better than mobiles (when aclling other landlines).

For low cost and generally high competence, Andrews & Arnold gets good feedback as a VoIP supplier. Their service will work over any Internet connection.

BT at a corporate level has decided that Plusnet won't offer VoIP (you need to go to BT for an Internet service with VoIP).

 

 

I am the satisfied customer....
MisterW
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

But Openreach/BT still own the copper from house to cabinet so why pays for that if there's no 'Line rental'? I'm not going to pay the same 'Line rental' or have it bundled in when I'm not using the PSTN system for calls and paying for a VOIP service.

Although there's no explicit Line rental charge, there is an element of maintenance of the copper line charge built into the SoGEA cost by Openreach.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Ian06
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

All the jargon is quite confusing...  AIUI copper lines are not going away anytime soon and services like FTTC/SoGEA will still be available over those copper lines for some time to come, but the telephone service offered over copper lines is being phased out and replace by VOIP over an internet service (BT call their service Digital Voice.)

When I was till working I have a home phone line and FTTC internet service over a copper line. Internet connection was poor (13Mb down/1Mb up) because we are about a mile from the cabinet we were connected to.  I set up a separate VOIP connection over my internet connection that I used for work... the VOIP service was great, very clear (better than the home phone) and I could have multiple lines and calls in use at the same time.

I have since retired so no longer use the VOIP service, we were able to get FTTP a couple of years ago so we ditched a home phone service and just use our mobiles now.  FTTP has been great we went for a 74/20 service which has been rock solid for the 2 years we have had it.

My experience with VOIP (on SIPGATE and VoipPhone) was very good, I used a CICSO ATA and CISCO Phones it was great.  I would suggest the ATA and phones will have a greater impact on the quality of the calls over VOIP... our neighbours currently have BT digital voice and seem very happy with it (except perhaps the cost.)

Voxmagna
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

Thanks to all who replied and I'm now better informed.

It looks like SoGEA or VM full fibre is the only way for me to go. I've not read anything yet that says if you are in a line rental contract, you would continue with a PSTN phone for 18 months? My area PSTN is already a complex copper route with many street junctions and I can't see BT/Openreach continuing to support a dying service after the end of 2024?

I'd rather establish a working VOIP service and line number change earlier when I can choose a suitable and competitive priced new broadband only package. I use a Pfsense router which I would need to re-configure. I use  BT True-Call DECT handsets for their call blocking and ease of use. I looked for an alternative DECT based VOIP multi handset home solution, but only came up with one company offering an expensive solution for a VOIP base station and 4 DECT handsets.

As long as a VOIP service can still deliver caller ID, I'm hoping I can temporarily use my existing landline phones and call filtering via a PSTN phone to a VOIP bridge. I expect there could be delays answering and making calls this way which won't give the best experience. But VOIP can offer internet access to messages from anywhere and voicemail storage which gives an interim alternative to a VOIP DECT multi phone home system.

Baldrick1
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

@Voxmagna 

I have used BT call blocking phones oh a Grandstream ATA and they work fine.

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Voxmagna
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

All the jargon is quite confusing...

Absolutely, but with all the help from yourself and others I think I've boiled it down without the jargon in simple language a G8(retired) and non Nerds can understand:

BT/Openreach own the copper wire from your house. They go to the first street cabinet. Inside the street cabinet there's a bridge from copper wires to fibre and a link from copper wires to their wired (PSTN) phone line network. In my area the copper wires pass through many street boxes and underground ducts to reach the exchange several miles away.

This convoluted network of copper wires and connections from the first street cabinet can be unreliable and engineers spend a lot of time and money repairing faults, whereas the shorter copper wires from house to the first street box generally is reliable because there may be only 1 or to junctions.

If  the distance between your house and the exchange is very short you can have a broadband service over wires whose speed is set by the length of the wires, but optimistically won't be more than 30Mb/s? If your first street cabinet is close to your house and has their fibre run to it like mine, you can have faster speed broadband over fibre BUT LIMITED BY THE SHORTER LENGTH OF COPPER between your house and the cabinet. In my case I can get up to 80mb/s broadband reliably, but my phones on copper wires to the exchange are always going faulty or crackle with poor sound.

If you are lucky and have a fibre cable specifically allocated to your house and nobody else owned by BT, Virgin or another, your house can be connected by fibre all the way into the Super Fast network (Owned by Openreach). You cannot connect to these unless you have contracts with the fibre owner or a third party has arrangements in place to pay and bundle in the cost of maintaining them. At the moment Plusnet and others pay BT/Openreach for renting the complete copper line PSTN system to the exchange as a landline charge for a landline phone and broadband. Depending on your post code, broadband can use a shorter wire hop house to fibre, a longer hop to fibre, or all the way to the exchange on wires. Using postcode searches to get speeds gives clues as to what type of route your broadband is taking. If you have a broadband only contract with no phone, why should you pay the full landline rental charge to use the first hop of copper wire?

BT/Openreach have decided to abandon the wired network from the first cabinet on long unreliable routes to their exchange, but keep wires from your house to the first cabinet. If you want a 'Landline phone' they will convert the phone signals to digital voice and your phone service will appear to work the same but is actually VOIP. That's fine if you have BT contracts because they own the first stage of the line and kit. In future we may see Openreach replacing the first wire hop between cabinet and home with fibre to give you full fibre to the home (FFTH), but who pays and how much? In many areas cabinet to home wires are overhead on poles but I'm not sure if fibre can take the same overhead route, or has to be in expensive new underground ducts?

The SoGEA option was created to allow 3rd party broadband providers access to the first wire hop home to cabinet then use the Openreach fibre network. A line rental charge is still there or hidden in the bundle, but should be lower for the short run and there's no access for a landline phone.

The problem looming for all of us wanting to keep our landline number and not abandon it to use mobile phones is VOIP cannot be avoided unless you are a radio amateur or use mobile phones exclusively. Only BT at the moment seem to be offering an end to end substitute of the old kit and connection bundled into their broadband contracts, whereas many would rather choose independent providers for their broadband and voice, or use mobile phones and not have voice at all.

bmc
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

@Voxmagna 

You seem to understand your copper phone route quite well. FTTC  is supplied from a separate cabinet which is linked to your existing phone cab. Internet is supplied by fibre optic cable to the FTTC cab and then uses the "last mile" of the copper to your house.

 

Full Fibre is a totally separate network which is supplied from a main "Internet Head End" Exchange all the way to you house. There are about 1,000 of these main Exchanges against around 5,000 Exchanges in total. When the fibre network is installed it is run to either the pole or the underground chamber serving your house. When or if FTTP is ordered the final connecection is made.

 

VOIP is totally independant of the internet provision. It will work where ever there is a reasonable internet connection.

 

As already mentioned, you can continue as you are so long as PN are offering PSTN. You can "jump" to VOIP any time you want by re-contracting with PN on a SOGEA connection. Just don't try and port the number before the change happens.

 

I can't remember if already stated but one thing to watch is VOIP doesn't work during power cuts unless you have back up power. Even then it'll only last as long as the power in the cabinet does. FTTP is better in this respect as the main Exchange will presumably have far better back up provision.

 

Finally, given A&A costs you could try VOIP out to see what your think. You'd be given a phone number to use. It'll cost a few quid but would give you an idea ofwhat's involved. If you're happy with it you are then in a position to move any time you want.

 

Brian

 

 

RealAleMadrid
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Re: BT dropping copper phone lines & moving to VOIP

@Voxmagna I'm afraid your post is rather long and confusing. However to summarise your final sentence is not far off the truth.

It is not only BT offering a combined broadband and phone solution which is their proprietary Digital Voice product, EE as a BT company also offer it and a number of other ISPs have their own version of some form of VOIP service including Zen, TalkTalk, Vodafone, Sky, A&A and others. So customers who want a bundled service have plenty of options and as you say .... "many would rather choose independent providers for their broadband and voice, or use mobile phones and not have voice at all".