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iPad / IMAP discussion

Superuser
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iPad / IMAP discussion

Quote from: Dalesman
Uh-oh, just seen this.  Just bought my OH an ipad to replace a much-loved Samsung netbook, which is used constantly for browsing, social media and webmail.  We both use webmail on any portable devices to 'check' emails, later downloading to Outlook on our desktops, so important email can be stored indefinitely and backed-up.  Non-functioning webmail is going to take the shine off the ipad on 25/12!  It's a pity as I'd come to the conclusion it was the best option, rather than Windows 8.1 or Android tablets, after a lot of research!  Can anyone think of a workaround?

Dalesman,
Hi again!  Don't worry, this is not the problem it is being made out to be (see link in above quote).  Use webmail if you must.
Better still change your main PC to use IMAP instead of pop3 - then use the iPads inbuilt email client.  It is easier and you can read / compose emails off line.
I have multiple email accounts all accessible from PC, iPad and iPhone simultaniously.
Kevin
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Dalesman
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Townman - thanks.  Never used IMAP, but just read PN's POP versus IMAP page.  So I see the advantage that emails are not automatically cleared down from the server and remain accessible from any machine.  But PN also says  "As your messages are kept on our mail system, you'll need to be connected to the Internet to read them."  It implies that off-line access is only possible via POP.
So how would we download a local copy for long-term storage and backup using IMAP?
Dalesman
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Quote from: PeterLoftus
The IPad email client is very good and we do what you say. Our emails are all backed up on outlook  Cool

Thanks Peter - could you please elaborate on how you achieve this?
Superuser
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

@Mods,
You might want to split this dialogue with Dalesman off into a separate thread?
@Dalesman,
Can you please provide a link to that article as it sounds a little misleading.
To read new email or to send email, you will need to be connected to the Internet irrespective of what technology you use.  With access methods other than "a web browser accessing webmail", you can read previously retrieved emails and compose new emails "off line" that is without a working Internet connection.  That said with the all pervasive presence of public wifi one need hardly ever be "off line" these days.
With a POP3 client program SENT emails are stored locally only on the device which sent it, so if you use several devices, there could be several places to look for your correspondence.  Generally when a POP3 client reads an email it removes the email from the server, though there us an option to leave emails on the server for other devices to view.  In this configuration an email you want to delete has to be deleted on all clients.
IMAP if configured correctly uses the server as both the master email store and synchronisation service for multiple email devices.  If each is configured to use the SENT, DRAFTS and TRASH folders on the server, that which is sent from one device can be seen from all devices, similarly for things deleted, depending on the options chosen for managing the deleted folder on exit.
The DRAFTS experience is less consistent.  For example Outlook on Win8 insists on hold its drafts locally, so unlike othe devices, you cannot start composing something on one device and come back later to finish it on another.
Web mail also uses IMAP, so if you have to use webmail (away from home in an Internet cafe for example) then you will see exactly what you see at home on your own devices.
Most IMAP clients also support local folders so that you can copy older material you wish to retain on a MASTER device and then remove that material from the server.
Finally IMAP also affords some protection from the total loss of email in the event of a disk failure on a not recently backed up PC!  I have had this happen to me  Embarrassed the significant inconvenience was massively mitigated though the use of IMAP configured email - (1) Nothing was lost and (2) I could carry on emailing via the iPad until the PC was fixed.
Ironically I'm posting this from a just upgraded iPad and the scrolling of this longish post in the edit window is much worse than it used to be.  These is still a great deal of work to be done with the touch screen interface to be as good as the mouse interface we are all so familiar with, despite some of the great benefits that touch screens offer.
BTW how is your long line / cc tv connectivity issue progressing?
All the best,
Kevin
Dalesman
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Townman,
Many thanks.  Sorry, yes - this probably deserves to be on the email board.
First, this is the link to PN's advice on POP versus IMAP:  http://www.plus.net/support/email/setup/settings.shtml#. ; The comparison table appears to say that with POP you can read messages (once downloaded) when you're not connected to the internet, but with IMAP you can't.
The key phrase in your reply was "IMAP if configured correctly uses the server as both the master email store and synchronisation service for multiple email devices".  This sounds ideal, if I understand correctly that Inbox and Sent folders (at least) can be synchronised between the server and each device.  Is this easy to configure?  I'm guessing there's more involved than changing mail.plus.net to imap.plus.net!  Does PN have a size limit for accounts on the IMAP server?  Surely there must be.  We used to be constantly harassed about this at work by our IT Dept.
Well remembered re. the long line / CCTV problem.  You'll recall that the session was stalling every few days (without loss of ADSL sync) and needing a manual reboot, only for the problem to repeat itself.  In response to posting here, the session was restored remotely by PN doing a "session kill".  Interestingly, it has not recurred since this was done.  This has been a surprise, but surely can't be a coincidence?
Dalesman
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Hi dalesman as townman describes above I use pop3 and have the settings leave emails on the server for a month before deletion so they are available for any other machine to access  Smiley
I set this up when I was in Saudi'rabia and my wife was in UK. I wanted an exact copy duplicated for each of us to access whatever each had done  in the meantime  Roll eyes
If course as husband and wife this set up depends on talking to each other and mutual understanding  Wink
With this arrangement all replies and originals are on the local machines only so if necessary cc or bcc is needed  Smiley
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do be do be do - Sinatra
Superuser
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Hi Dalesman,
Some people (and their issues) one remembers for various reasons - in your case the reasonableness of your approach!
In reference to the PN page...
Quote
As your messages are kept on our mail system, you'll need to be connected to the Internet to read them.

@CRT - can this be reviewed please - I do not know of an IMAP client where this is the case.  IMAP SYNCHRONISES the contents of the server with the client, specifically so that one can read emails off-line.

@DM, You are correct in your understanding, though it is more than changing the receive mail server.  You cannot change an existing POP3 "configuration" to IMAP.  You need to create a new "account" in your client and set the type to IMAP.
You also need to set the "account" to use the server's SENT / TRASH / DRAFT folders rather than "local" ones.
PlusNet have a 1GB fair use policy on email.
I'll ask the mods to split these posts off into a separate thread in the right forum (the whole of this thread ought to be in email).
Kevin
Superuser
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Quote from: PeterLoftus
With this arrangement all replies and originals are on the local machines only so if necessary cc or bcc is needed  Smiley

Peter,
POP3 can be made to work as you describe, however IMAP is tidier and once set up needs less thinking about.
Kevin
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Split off as requested - if I got it a bit wrong please advise
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

@townman
When was IMAP released? Sometime after POP3 I think. I have had some of my email accounts for years and originally started with pop2 or was it pop1  Roll eyes
To do is to be - Neitzsche
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do be do be do - Sinatra
Superuser
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

OK Peter,
I am now going to ask a question which I have out off asking you for a long time - did you ever work for ICL / Fujitsu?  I have a feeling I know you!
Indeed IMAP did come along a little later than POP3.
Your query led me to read this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Protocol - on the history of POP.  I noted this interesting comparison of POP & IMAP.
Quote
Comparison with IMAP
POP is a much simpler protocol, making implementation easier
POP mail moves the message from the email server onto your local computer, although there is usually an option to leave the messages on the email server as well.
IMAP defaults to leaving the message on the email server, simply downloading a local copy.
POP treats the mailbox as one store, and has no concept of folders
An IMAP client performs complex queries, asking the server for headers, or the bodies of specified messages, or to search for messages meeting certain criteria. Messages in the mail repository can be marked with various status flags (e.g. "deleted" or "answered") and they stay in the repository until explicitly removed by the user --which may not be until a later session. In short: IMAP is designed to permit manipulation of remote mailboxes as if they were local. Depending on the IMAP client implementation and the mail architecture desired by the system manager, the user may save messages directly on the client machine, or save them on the server, or be given the choice of doing either.
The POP protocol requires the currently connected client to be the only client connected to the mailbox. In contrast, the IMAP protocol specifically allows simultaneous access by multiple clients and provides mechanisms for clients to detect changes made to the mailbox by other, concurrently connected, clients. See for example RFC3501 section 5.2 which specifically cites "simultaneous access to the same mailbox by multiple agents" as an example.
When POP retrieves a message, it receives all parts of it, whereas the IMAP4 protocol allows clients to retrieve any of the individual MIME parts separately - for example retrieving the plain text without retrieving attached files.
IMAP supports flags on the server to keep track of message state: for example, whether or not the message has been read, replied to, or deleted.
Dalesman
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Townman,
Many thanks.  I've made a note of your instructions for setting up new IMAP accounts in lieu of POPs.  Presumably all of this is set up via the email clients of each device (Outlook and whatever the iPad client calls itself, which I have yet to discover) and also presumably the POP accounts have to be deleted at the same time, though I wonder what happens if you don't. 
Actually the iPad is a giant leap into the unknown for us, never having owned a device from the dark side.  The alternative could have been Microsoft's Surface Pro 3 running Windows 8.1, and I'm not sure I've jumped the right way.  How will we cope without a keyboard etc etc.
Peter,
Thanks also.  Whilst IMAP will be the more elegant solution, leaving a copy on the POP server for a specified period would be a tempting quick fix in case of any problems.  I've managed to track down that option in Outlook - and boy, is it well-hidden.
Superuser
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Dalesman,
You are tempting me to write the "idiot's" guide (please do not be offended  Wink) to migrating from POP3 to IMAP.
It is imperative that once you start using IMAP, you DO NOT ALLOW the POP3 client / account to connect again.  All IMAP is essential.  Though you are connecting to a different email server, logically they are using the same email box file store.
Everything in life is about personal preference.  I have an iPad - I do not particularly like Apple / Mac / iOS.  I do like Windows for its "ordinary user" ease of use... until I saw Win8 / Win8.1.
Surface 3 is a beautiful concept ruined by what I consider to be the worse OS ever released by MS.  I have some elderly friends (late 60's) who were sold Win8 tables by PC World as the best thing since sliced bread.  I have 35 years experience in supporting IT, yet these devices took me 4+ hours to get configured properly with email, whilst recognising the needs of their laptops.  They are reasonably happy now, but that was not something they could have achieved on their own.  It was not helpful that PC World set them up with new outlook.com email addresses which Win8 seems to necessitate.
IMHO you have made the right choice.  Surface 3 does not come with the keyboard as standard - that is an additional £100 which they do not tell you in the adverts!  There is a wide range of add-on keyboards for iPads from several providers.  Another friend gets on well with the Belkin blue tooth keyboard.
Verdict - simply love the iPad even if it is a product of the darkside, as for the Surface 3, its a lovely machine but the OS really lets it down.  May be I will grow to like Win8.1 in time, but right now the jury cannot make its mind up!
I'll help you as and when you need it.
Kevin
Dalesman
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

Townman,
Your advice today has been invaluable and I don't wish to put you to the trouble of writing the idiot's guide to migrating from POP to IMAP. 
Your comments on Win 8.1 are interesting too.  I'm expecting to feel like a completely useless beginner with our first iOS device which is why, with 20+ years experience as a Windows user, I was quite tempted by the Surface Pro tablet/laptop hybrid (with its optional extra keyboard!), thinking it would be as familiar and easy to set up as Win 7 was after XP.
I had a feeling the sky might fall down if POP3 and IMAP accounts were trying to coexist.
Dalesman
Superuser
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Re: iPad / IMAP discussion

After discussion earlier in that thread someone kindly wrote down the procedure they used for migrating from using POP3 to using IMAP which is here.
Their aim was to upload still-required messages downloaded to local folders using POP3 back to the IMAP online folders, so that all (current) messages were in IMAP folders.
Hope this helps.
David
David