Problems with sending email via Plusnet to Fasthosts Livemail SMTP server

[#1]

I will do that.

I use port 465 for the SMTP server as that'ss what they specify.

Yes, as mentioned yesterday, all IP address resolves to UK locations.

[#2]

465 is deprecated (ought not to be used). Try 587 with STARTTLS.

[#3]

When I queried why certain IP addresses might cause problems, I received this reply:

'There are certain SMTP protocols that are not allowed by your ISP. You can try changing your SMTP port from 465 to 25 without SSL and check if this works.'

This sounds like a 'brush off' response to me; why would I want to switch to an unencrypted SMTP connection?

[#4]

Exactly!! Not just a brush off but poorly informed.

Historically (and possibly still the case) some network managers (particularly businesses) totally blocked SMTP access to “off network” servers on port 25, whilst permitting on ports 465 and 587.

Following strict adherence to standards, email messages should not be submitted on port 25 - that is designated for MX to MX message relay. Port 465 used for message submission has been deprecated. That leaves 587 as the correct port for email client message submission.

You telnet diagnostic test makes very plain that Plusnet is not blocking access to your host’s SMTP service as suggested by the response above … it is THEIR server / network which is blocking your login. They need to investigate why.

[#5]

They carried on insisting that I try Port 25 with no security; I gave in and tried it so they could follow their script, but it didn't work, of course.

Edit: I've just been checking my old PMs and noted that we had the same problem in March, but it fixed itself after a couple of days!

[#6]

Have you mentioned the telnet diagnostics which prove that it is not Plusnet blocking access?  If Plusnet were blocking access to that server (on whatever port) you would not be able to telnet to it to attempt to login.

[#7]

Well they've finally admitted that they ARE blacklisting my IP address and the previous 2 IP addresses my connection has had; they are using their own antispam lists ( https://antispam.fasthosts.co.uk) but are telling me Plusnet needs to give me a new IP address. I have told them that their service sucks, especially as they denied using blacklisting when the issue was first raised 2 weeks ago!

Why on earth would you include dynamic IPs in an antispam list? It's completely counterproductive as it just blocks vast swathes of IP addresses belonging to an ISP as IP addresses get reallocated.

Any suggestions as to how to fix this (other than booting Fasthosts to the wall)?

[#8]

First question would be why (on what criteria) are they blacklisting the IP addresses? That might inform solutions.

[#9]

Looking at their blacklist, it points to SpamHaus as the source of the blaclisting; this is what is listed on the SpamHaus site for one of the IPs:

This IP is listed in the Policy Blocklist (PBL)

Don’t panic!

The inclusion of your IP address on the Policy Blocklist (PBL) is standard for the vast majority of internet users and is not the result of your actions. Here are some key PBL facts for your understanding:

• Being on this list does not mean you won’t be able to send emails.
• You do not need to request removal from PBL.
• This listing is controlled by your Internet Service Provider (ISP), not Spamhaus.
• Your ISP lists ranges of IP addresses that shouldn’t be sending email directly to the internet.
• Typically, IPs of broadband or dial-up customers will be included in this list.
• This is part of Internet best practices enacted to protect all users.

[#10]

I just checked another address which is blacklisted by SORBS; have a look at the date on this one:

Note: Times shown are for the latest entry only!

Found 2 network entries and 0 host/domain entries.
Usage classification (only important if you run your own mailserver.)
1 "DUHL" entries [06:43:13 01 Jan 2006 GMT-05].
217.32.161.0/24 - 1 entries [06:43:13 01 Jan 2006 GMT-05].

So this IP range has been blacklisted for 16 years!!!!

[#11]

Key words therein: only import if you run your own mail server.

To be clear here, this is an email application seeking to submit email messages to a SMTP server - not a mail MX service trying to relay email?

Further from the link in the prior post…

The Policy Blocklist (PBL) is a list of IP space that should not be sending email direct to MX: often these are IP ranges assigned by ISPs to broadband or dial-up customers, but the PBL does include other types of IP space. Any IP space that should not be sending email directly to the Internet should be listed in PBL.

That reads as though you are running a mail server which is attempting to relay email which is not permitted by policy.

[#12]

Rereading the original post - "... if I disconnect the iPhone from WiFi it sends OK ..." refutes the suggestion that you are running your own mail server ... and points back to Fasthosts having a flawed implementation of an anti-spam service.

The PBL listing of ISP broadband IPs is perfectly correct and it is perfectly correct to block email RELAY from those IP addresses.  What is not correct is to also block email SUBMISSION from those addresses.

Looks like this is back to Fasthosts' support folk.

A static IP address from Plusnet (one off charge £5) might fix the issue, but as the issue appears to be with Fasthosts, there is no assurance that such an investment will fix things here.

[#13]

Thanks Townman.

I contacted them and they claim that the IP addresses were in the lists because they had been sources of spam; I have pointed out to them that that's incorrect and that they are on the Policy Block Lists. I have also pointed out that they are applying the PBLs incorrectly.

I can confirm that I am not running a mailserver (at least not one that's connected to to an external network).

[#14]

I'm fuming and am definitely going to move our hosting elsewhere. This was their last response when I pointed out they were incorrectly applying the PBL:

Yes, I am afraid, it is under policy blocklist. You need to have this referred with your broadband provider, I am afraid. Alternatively, you can use their free smtp server to continue sending emails.

When I'm paying £20 /month for 2 business email addresses, I don't expect this kind of response!

[#15]

When I'm paying £20 /month for 2 business email addresses, I

that's extortionate!

have a look at https://www.ecohosting.co.uk/email.html or https://www.mythic-beasts.com/hosting

I've had one of my domains with ecohosting for a while, multiple mailboxes but only a single domain

Been trialing mythic for a couple of months with another domain, they allow multiple domains and multiple mailboxes. 

Not had any problems with using either from my Plusnet IP ( but I do have a static ip ) and both support SPF & DKIM

Both are around the £20 mark BUT that's per year not per month!!!