Plusnet email security not accepted on Thunderbird

[#1]

Good Morning

I have just recently installed Thunderbird email client (TB) to use with my Plusnet account and Outlook.com . It is set up as IMAP.

On installation, the automatic scanning by TB on the outlook.com account went smoothly and all settings were registered.  On scanning the Plusnet account, however, TB declined to register any security settings at all and asked me to acknowledge that I understood the risks. 

This I did as a temporary measure and confirmed that receive and send on the Plusnet account did actually work before trying to set up the security - this is where the problem arises!!

On incoming Plusnet mail both STARTTLS and SSL/TLS  prevent connection and the attempt times out thus preventing me accessing the messages.

Outgoing mail is successful as it uses the Microsoft - smtp Default in TB on Port 587 with STARTTLS.

I am, of course, keen to get some security installed for my Plusnet account, but I don't know what to do next - please can somebody help me?

Thanks and regards,

Roy.

[#2]

@daddybear 

Are you using the correct port, 993 for IMAP I think?

[#3]

Do not use the wizard in TBird to set up; do manually, following guidance here;
https://www.plus.net/help/email-guides/how-to-set-up-plusnet-email/

[#4]

Hello Gel and Baldrick

Many thanks to you both for such prompt help - much appreciated.

Using a combination of advice from you both I think I have managed to sort it !?

Port is now 993 and SSL/TLS security is working (but STARTTLS doesn't)

I will go with these settings for a while now and see how I get on - hopefully all OK now.

Thanks and regards,

Roy.

[#5]

The correct settings are:

• IMAP imap.plus.net Port 993 SSL/TLS
• SMTP relay.plus.net Port 587 STARTTLS

Automatic setup makes some very rash presumptions about what the email account settings might be, typically (though not limited to)...

• The account ID is the email address, rather than something else such as 'yourplusnetaccount' or 'yourplusnetaccount+mailboxname'
• The IMAP server is imap.youraccount.plus.com which is clearly wrong
• The SMTP server is smtp.youraccount.plus.com which is clearly wrong
• Or the SMTP server name is smtp.plus.net - though that might work, if configured with encryption, there is a fair chance that a security certificate error will be encountered

As @Gel advised, always use manual set up.

[#6]

Townman

Many thanks for the confirmation of the correct settings for manual set-up of Plusnet e-mail.

I had already changed these to the correct ones, after advice from Gel, to get the account working properly via Thunderbird client and incoming and outgoing mail was all OK.

I did, however, have an ongoing problem with an irregular and random opening of my Settings 'Default Apps'  page which was eventually pinned down to Thunderbird and stopped happening after removing Thunderbird.

I don't know if there was any incompatibility between Thunderbird and the Outlook.com and Plusnet accounts that I was using with it but I am not going to bother trying to prove it one way or the other - Thunderbird is now history for me !!

Do you know if there are any other e-mail clients which have been shown -or suspected- to have an incompatibility with Plusnet ?  If there are such ones then I can be sure to avoid them.

Thanks again for your interest and help.

Regards,

Roy.

[#7]

@daddybear Thunderbird is TOTALLY compatible with Plusnet - I have always used it for the nine plus years I was with them, and with previous suppliers with no problem.

[#8]

+1

[#9]

---

@daddybear wrote:

Do you know if there are any other e-mail clients which have been shown -or suspected- to have an incompatibility with Plusnet ?  If there are such ones then I can be sure to avoid them.

Roy.

---

Hi Roy,

I do not know of any email clients which are not compatible with Plusnet's email services, which is not the same as saying that some are not overly straightforward to configure ... especially when they seek to get "smart" and make a hash of guessing what the settings might be.  Generally we expect far too much of technology and in our own ignorance far too often abandon the acquisition of knowledge and just hope the tech will work things out for itself.

That rather neatly brings on around to consider the failings of some email applications, things which might well go worng equally with any email service they might be used with.

• All of the old "poor man's" cut down version of proper MS Outlook very much did everything one might want, especially tidy deleting, however for most of them, though they will still work on Win10 AFAIK they do not support the current versions of TLS and thus working over encrypted connections is not viable
• Proper MS Outlook prior to Outlook 2016 was not overly tidy dealing with deleting emails - they did not do the same as the vast majority of email applications - MOVE them to the waste bin - but instead they were simply marked as "deleted" left in the inbox (or wherever) and then dealt with (depending on settings) when either changing folder or exiting Outlook
• The email application which ships with Win10 is a really sad excuse for an email app - most email applications will look for pre-existing system folders and use what they find on the server.  Not Win10 Mail however.  It insists on having its won way with the sent items folder and in my experience always creates its own, ignoring what is there and leaving the user with tow different sent items folders, each used differently by different email applications where the mailbox is accessed by a number of devices
• Also in respect of Win10 Mail under no circumstances will it save draft mail items to the server drafts folder

HTH?

[#10]

Hello Townman

Thank you for your reply and sharing that information with me - your welcome comments are noted.

I am currently trawling the internet looking at several replacement clients and hoping that when I do decide on one it will not have any strange reactions with my particular systems - just try and see, I suppose.

Thanks again and regards,

Roy.

[#11]

Hello again Townman

Just an update to my previous reply and also to ask if you would kindly help me with a couple of questions arising.

I tried a few more e-mail clients - and didn't like any of them - so finished up going back to my original emClient version before I ran into trouble with the newest update.

Everything has downloaded OK and installed with the allowed two accounts - outlook.com and plusnet.com - They are working as expected except for a couple of warnings from emClient about plusnet folders. Have attached a screenshot to show this.  

Please can you suggest how I could resolve this?

One other quick question - while moving around my e-mail accounts recently more than usual I have noticed that every time I leave my Plusnet webmail window I have to log back in again when I return to it even if it is only a short time.

Is there a way to stay logged in to Plusnet like I can be in outlook? I know it is not necessary when I am working via the emClient, but just wondered how to do it when accessing the account directly?

Regards,

Roy.

[#12]

Hi Roy,

I am not familiar with emClinet so any advice which I offer is based solely on what I can read via a Google search.  There seems to be a significant number of issues with the emClient in respect of managing folders on IMAP servers.  Several posts down in this topic - Can't create IMAP-subfolders - Mail - eM Client - somewhat suggests that emClient has problems when trying to delete a folder which contains mail items.

I cannot be certain, what you were trying to do, but looking at the apparently odd folder names, I am guessing that you were trying to delete the JUNK folder (the place where AV software moves spam to) rather than leaving it where it is and deleting the CONTENTS of the folder.  The junk FOLDER is a systems folder and should not be deleted,

There is another possibility here - I do not know what gives rise to the characteristic but in some circumstances, it is necessary to specify the root folder on a mailbox as "inbox".  If one uses other tools to inspect the IMAP server, one will find that all of the folders are sub-folders of INBOX, not peers to inbox.

 "every time I leave my Plusnet webmail window I have to log back in again"

What do you mean by "leave" here?

If you close the browser the session is disconnected and you need to reconnect.

I do not know what the inactive session time out period is, but I believe it to be a fair while.

[#13]

Hello Townman

Very sorry to be so late in replying - only just got back from shopping in Homebase DIY for tiles, which have got to go on the bathroom wall this afternoon.  Got to keep the wife happy you know !!

As you will understand I may not get round to investigating your links today - depends how the job goes.

What does "  If one uses other tools to inspect the IMAP server, one will find that all of the folders are sub-folders of INBOX, not peers to inbox." mean please? What tools?

The query about logging in and out of Plusnet is solved. My wife never has to log in to Plusnet even though she has closed the programme and/or her laptop as well and I didn't know why (and neither did she !!), but it turns out that she saves certain login ID's and passwords on her Edge browser and Plusnet is one of them. We don't keep secrets, but she never thought to mention this when I was telling her about the query !!  All's well that ends well.

Will come back to you soon to tell you how I am getting on ...... or not.

Regards,

Roy.

[#14]

Various tools (such as IMAP folders... eight click a mailbox in outlook) will deliver the naked folder names.

Accessing an IMAP server using telnet (complex process not for here) will should the folder hierarchy, for example...

3 list "inbox" "*"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Diabetes Prevention"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Probably42"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.AVIVA"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Drafts"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Trash"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Sent"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Spam"
3 OK LIST completed

[#15]

Hello Townman

Sorry to report that I am not having much success in investigating further the folder errors in emClient for Plusnet.

One thing has occurred to me - this post is headed relating to security and Thunderbird so it is not really relevant to the folder problem.

I am thinking to start a new thread with a new and more descriptive heading and/or contacting Plusnet support directly to make the problem more accurately targetted.

Thanks for all your help and interest so far - much appreciated.

Regards,

Roy.