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Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

FIXED
JHA1E
Grafter
Posts: 37
Thanks: 13
Registered: ‎11-09-2015

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

Only?? Gmail is probably the most used email client. I become tired or seeing and hearing PN on TV and radio where of course no reference is made to this problem as it might frighten away potential customers. The cost of this advertising could be better spent providing the resources to resolve the problem.

sirjestalot
Grafter
Posts: 37
Thanks: 26
Registered: ‎08-09-2018

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

Just to add a bit of balance, I received an email in my PN account from a btinternet.com address on Saturday 01 Dec at 14:35, which had been sent on.... 24 Nov at 10:58, a delay of 8 days 3 hours 37 minutes!   However, it looks from the message headers that the email was somehow not collected by the BT server for most of that time, so appears to have been stuck in the sender's Outbox for some reason (once collected by BT, it was delivered to my PN account almost instantly).  Just goes to show that all is not necessarily what it seems, and sometimes one needs to dig a little deeper.

u36184
Hooked
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎24-08-2007

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

A delayed email (2 plus days) I sent from PN  to a friend showed the time he received it and not the time it was sent.

 

What is shown in your header may be different of course.

sirjestalot
Grafter
Posts: 37
Thanks: 26
Registered: ‎08-09-2018

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?


@u36184 wrote:

A delayed email (2 plus days) I sent from PN  to a friend showed the time he received it and not the time it was sent.

 What is shown in your header may be different of course.


 

Every message should contain a 'Date: ' header which shows the date & time it was sent, that is, the date & time - as stored in your computer's clock - you hit the 'Send' button.  Usually looks something like this:

     Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2018 10:58:08 -0000

Your mail app (whether webmail or a standalone app such as Thunderbird) should add that header and it's present in the message before it passes through any server.

 

DamianR
Newbie
Posts: 2
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎20-12-2018

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

Plusnet appear clueless, still, about any fix for this problem. Emails to Gmail from Plusnet take days to arrive.

Their response is, quote: "we do not have a resolution time for this email problem".

Not good enough! So it will be goodbye plusnet for me.

sirjestalot
Grafter
Posts: 37
Thanks: 26
Registered: ‎08-09-2018

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?


@DamianR wrote:

Plusnet appear clueless, still, about any fix for this problem. [...]

Not good enough! So it will be goodbye plusnet for me.


Strange then that email from Plusnet to every other email service provider except Google is delivered without any problems.  It's clearly Google who are responsible and need to fix this problem.  Why not say goodbye to Google instead?

For my part, I have taken to using outlook.com whenever I need to email anyone with a Gmail address.

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 7,687
Thanks: 1,461
Fixes: 92
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

It's clearly Google who are responsible and need to fix this problem.

or at least engage, to help understand the problem:rolleyes:

DamianR
Newbie
Posts: 2
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎20-12-2018

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

I'm not with Google!

Also emails to Gmail from other providers get to Gmail on time, so why not from Plusnet.

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 14,715
Thanks: 5,725
Fixes: 32
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

Well that’s not actually true, there are others suffering as well.

From the detailed testing reported here it is very clear the the gmail servers are delaying receipt of emails. The PlusNET servers are offering mail for delivery in a timely fashion ... but gmail is refusing to accept delivery.

Plusnet have reported that they are working on implementing non-mandatory rules to address gmail’s unilateral refusal to accept timely delivery to free gmail accounts - remember there are no issues if the gmail account is paid for.

However the implementation programme is not simple and has the potential to totally disrupt the operation of email to many services other than gmail for a lot of Plusnet users. Fixing gmail’s failings by implementing non-mandatory options has the potential for mayhem.

The right answer is for gmail to stop being a bully boy and cease inhibiting the delivery of email to their free account holders.
JHA1E
Grafter
Posts: 37
Thanks: 13
Registered: ‎11-09-2015

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

It is not strictly accurate to say that only free GMail accounts are involved. I have had difficulties sending to known paid Gmail accounts. I have said previously that I have set up my own (free) Gmail account with my Plus net email address as the reply address. When I need to send to GMail accounts, I use my Gmail account to send.

 

I suspect that we are not being told the full story. To me it seems odd that PN has been singled out. IT politics perhaps?

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 3,228
Thanks: 926
Fixes: 7
Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

That's interesting. Can you share any more on paid for Gmail accounts being affected. A few of us (mainly @Townman) did a lot of testing a while ago and didn't have any delays on paid for Gmail (G Suite) accounts.

 

Plusnet aren't being singled out here.  There are others affected too if you have a search around.

PeterB1
Grafter
Posts: 33
Thanks: 26
Registered: ‎19-10-2018

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

I don't see the point of PlusNet email users arguing among ourselves about this.

The lengthy correspondence on this forum has established some things quite clearly:

1) Technically, Google are responsible for delaying many emails from PlusNet accounts to Gmail.

2) The majority of other email providers are not affected by this.

3) Nobody knows why emails from PlusNet (and a handful of other providers, perhaps) to Gmail are subject to delay, while emails from the majority of providers are not. This is because Google will not engage with PN in trying to solve the problem.

There is nothing PlusNet can do to force Google to cooperate.

4) PlusNet believe they have a fix they can implement without Google's cooperation that may solve the problem..

5) Implementing this fix is complicated because it potentially means one substantial group of PlusNet customers would then be unable to send emails at all.

6) Some PlusNet customers appear to have decided to leave PlusNet altogether, which is of course their privilege. Others of us, sympathising with PlusNet's predicament, prefer to stick with them for the time being.

The key issue for me is TRANSPARENCY.

Given the major flaw in Plusnet's email service (even if the root of the problem lies with Google), PlusNet owes its customers regular, detailed updates - and openness about progress (or lack of it) in fixing the problem.

Not long ago, JonoH was very helpful in explaining aspects of the issue on behalf of PlusNet on this forum, but things have now gone quiet again. I think we deserve a comprehensive new update early in the New Year (at the latest). This should include information on what PlusNet will be doing to deal with the PlusNet customers who stand to be adversely affected by the proposed fix. Until that decision is made, we will see no progress.

Over to you PlusNet.

Merry Christmas to all!

 

 

 

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 14,715
Thanks: 5,725
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

Hi Peter,

An excellent summary, though I might not concur with "major flaw".

Much of what you are looking for has already been sign-posted here - https://community.plus.net/t5/Service-Information/We-re-making-changes-to-your-email/m-p/1598823#M32...

We’re improving the way our emails work in the New Year by adding SPF records.

This means you’ll no longer be able to send your emails through your own server if it isn't configured to send via relay.plus.net or other email providers may reject them.

What this means is that anything sent as being from @myaccount.plus.com will only be able to be sent via relay.plus.net - anyone using any other SMTP server (for whatever reason) will encounter issues with an email service which correctly enforces SPF rules.

The above will require effort from a large number of Plusnet users to change the way their devices are configured to send out emails - this will entail a lot of work for Plusnet support staff, both before and after the key technical change can be / has been implemented.  SPF will require new DNS records to be created and maintained for EVERY user account.

 

The issue we are seeing with Gmail is that it is NOT correctly applying SPF rules … in the absence of a SPF rule, an email server should act in a neutral manner and accept the inbound email … not reject or delay it.

 

PeterB1
Grafter
Posts: 33
Thanks: 26
Registered: ‎19-10-2018

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

See replacement post below

PeterB1
Grafter
Posts: 33
Thanks: 26
Registered: ‎19-10-2018

Re: Plusnet to Gmail addresses - what's the problem?

Thanks, Townman.

Some questions:

1) Do we know roughly when "in the New Year" the adding of SPF records will occur?

2) Will this fix still adversely affect the group of users PlusNet has identified as at risk when a fix is implemented?

3) Will trying to mitigate the effect on this group of users still mean a lengthy delay before the fix is implemented?

4) Do you think adding SPF records will actually eliminate delays in emails sent to Gmail? (I ask because PlusNet representatives earlier talked vaguely about an unspecified possible fix which might work - but didn't sound overly confident about it. Is this the same fix they had in mind then?

Finally, on the point about configuring SMTP servers: my PC, iPad and iPhone all currently use relay.plus.net to send emails from my PlusNet address, so I should be OK there. However, occasionally in years gone by I have had trouble getting relay.plus.net to work when I'm abroad. On some of those occasions, I tried re-setting the outgoing server to (ironically enough!) Google's SMTP server (smtp.gmail.com) which worked fine. Are you saying that, when SPF records have been added, smtp.gmail.com will no,longer work as a back-up?