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Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

FIXED
jric
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎13-08-2018

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

I have been monitoring this problem since September. It is now Jan, and I find the situation has become intolerable. People used to refer disparagingly to "snail mail" but in fact Royal Mail works out QUICKER than sending via Plusnet to Gmail. I have lost important arrangements because of delays of up to 5 days. Worse, some emails go missing completely (especially to Australia apparently). This has confirmed my previous statement "there is no point in waiting for Plusnet to fix the issue".

Another way Plusnet has gone retro is that delayed email used to generate a delay message if the receiving server was not accepting and then if it did not get delivered this also generated a message "this is a permanent error". With Plusnet you have no way of knowing that your email has gone missing.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Google's policies 50% of my contacts have Gmail accounts and I have to be able to communicate with them reliably.

 

Workaround: I have found that if I need to forward something important I can forward it to my GMX account (INSTANTLY) then send it from there to Gmail recipient (INSTANTLY). I have set up GMX so that any replies also go automatically to my main Plusnet account to be read on Apple Mail (INSTANTLY).

So the question is – why even bother to insert the blockage that is Plusnet into that system and why not just use GMX? The answer is that I only renewed my Plusnet account in order to avoid changing the email address on the dozens of online accounts I have for utilities, banking, shopping, etc. I have used Plusnet broadband for years and found it very good indeed. However, their broadband costs are now very expensive and for new customers they have craftily and quietly reduced their download speeds by nearly half from 17 Mbps to !0 Mbps. Without reliable email this is no longer even competitive.

So I am using my remaining contract time to gradually wade through and make the changeover of email addresses and when my contract expires so will my long relationship with Plusnet.

PeterB1
Rising Star
Posts: 64
Thanks: 36
Registered: ‎19-10-2018

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

Don't know how long your contract has to run, pric, but on the specific point about emails sent from PlusNet accounts to Gmail addresses, it may be the problem will be solved by the time it] ends.

If you've read this thread, you'll know PN are planning a fix to what turned out to be a complex technical problem caused by Google. They've convinced me they're doing their utmost to do this as quickly as possible.

I agree PN's broadband service is generally very good, so I'm hoping to stick with them and in the meantime I'm using a backup Gmail account to send emails to Gmail addresses. It's tedious having to do this - but with a bit of luck only a temporary measure.

Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 22,923
Thanks: 9,542
Fixes: 159
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

To be factual here, ADSL down load speeds have not been reduced from 17mbps to 10mbps as implied here - what has changed are the ASA rules on how products are advertised. If the above is measured change then you have a line fault or (if fibre) there has been a significant increase in cross talk.

All technologies have a maximum capability which degrades over distance. ADSL2+ maximum is 24mbps. It used to be advertised at what the top 10% of households get as synch speed (up-to 17mbps). Since then the advertising controls have to reference DATA speed for a higher percentage of the population at peak time. Data speed is always less than synch speed and data speeds can be slower at peak times.

It’s not dissimilar to the M25 - legally you can do 70mph around it without stopping ... but during commuter rush hours that is not going to be your experience.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Lester
Hooked
Posts: 5
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎07-01-2019

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

I have been aware of delays when sending to gmail addresses from my PN address for a while, usually around 1 or 2 hours, but recently the delays have become intolerable.

Just as a test, I sent a one line message (40 characters, plain text, no graphics or attachments) to a friend with a gmail address on 5 January at 14:29. This has just been received at 11:20 today 7 January. 45 hours delay.

I administer a social group with 18 members, but group members with gmail addresses may not receive messages for several days if sent from PN!!

Because some messages are time critical I have been forced to send out the same message twice - once from my PN address and once from my gmail address, which is tedious but works up to a point.

However. if anyone from the first group (the non-gmail members) sends a "reply all", gmail users may not receive it for a couple of days.

I had understood that this was to do with how Google interprets Sender Policy Framework (SPF). Does the recently posted note about adding SPF in PN address this? Also, I still use Windows Live Mail and Windows 7, which suits me very well. Any suggestions welcome. Many thanks.

Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 22,923
Thanks: 9,542
Fixes: 159
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

Hi @Lester,

A warm welcome to the forums.

As you note, this is a right royal pain, arising from Google's flawed (and in consistent) processing of mail from some sender domains - not just PlusNet's.  The size of the email has nothing to do with delivery delays.  It seems to be a matter of how many are sent in a time slice.  I have sent groups of 5 at 4-5 hour intervals (5 now, 5 after 4 hours, 5 the next day) and have found that some of the second and third group arrive before the last of the first and second groups.  The mechanics of what is happening are far from clear.

What is very clear is that Google is only doing this deferral of accepting delivery to their free Gmail accounts.  I have no experience of delays in sending to paid for Gmail accounts.

As things stand (in the absence of proper engagement from Google), it is thought that the introduction of SPF records for every @myaccount.plus.com might mitigate the issue.  Implementation of SPF is not a simple activity, which is what the recent announcement referred to.

The implementation of SPF will not alter the email client's operation, beyond you will not be ale to send reliably emails from @myaccount.plus.com if not using a Plusnet SMTP server.

The worst that you might have to do is to change the SMTP server settings to relay.plus.net (*) using port 587 authenticated with a user name (account or mailbox) and password.

(*) Or the appropriate SMTP server for your virtual ISP.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

PeterB1
Rising Star
Posts: 64
Thanks: 36
Registered: ‎19-10-2018

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

Hi Lester,

I'm just an ordinary PN user like you, rather than a member of PN staff of Superuser.

I've been involved in the discussion on this forum about email delays to Gmail addresses for some time now, and yes - PN's plan to implement SPF does address this problem. It shouldn't be necessary, but it seems the only way to get around the way Google is currently delaying our PN emails. It's technically difficult for PN to do this and they have not yet published a target date, but I'm persuaded they are definitely working on it. In the meantime, like you, I'm using a backup Gmail address to send messages to Gmail users. It's annoying - and it would be better if PN would at least give us a target date for the fix - but I hope the wait is worth it because I like PN's broadband service and want to keep my PN email address.

Hope this helps.

IanmacPN
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎16-11-2017

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

Im having the same problem.

Some emails take up to 24 hrs.

The recipient is a family member who recently switched to plusnet.  It is a gmail address.

I have no other issues with incoming our outgoing emails to other people.

I dont have an hour to wait on the phone to get help and I cant find out how to get an email to Plusnet or lodge a ticket with my complaint

Any ideas as to what the problem is ?

Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 22,923
Thanks: 9,542
Fixes: 159
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

The problem is that Gmail is deliberately delaying receipt of emails sent to their free email accounts from *.plus.com email addresses.

This is not something Gmail is doing in respect of their paid for account customers.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

LaurenB
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 2,577
Thanks: 508
Fixes: 131
Registered: ‎07-12-2017

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

Hi @IanmacPN, I'm really sorry you are affected by this issue.

 

As @Townman has advised, the issue is apparent when sending an email to free Gmail addresses from a Plusnet email.

 

It is something we are aware of and our Networks Team are in the process of working on a fix. The moment we know more, we will update this thread accordingly.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Lauren Barry
 Plusnet Help Team
Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 22,923
Thanks: 9,542
Fixes: 159
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

@LaurenB,

I would suggest that support are working on a potential MITIGATION.

A "fix" implies that the cause of this issue is known for certain (which given no responses from Google cannot be asserted) and that the "fault" lies within Plusnet.

If this potential mitigation successfully avoids the experienced symptoms, all it will do is confirm that Gmail is not compliant with SPF rule processing in respect to their free email accounts.

Given that all works fine in respect of their paid for accounts, one can only infer that Gmail is not using consistent standards across their email platforms.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

IanmacPN
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎16-11-2017

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

Thanks to all for the feedback

Will wait patiently

Lester
Hooked
Posts: 5
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎07-01-2019

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

Hi @IanmacPN

I have a gmail address as well as my Plusnet address, and have set up Windows Live Mail so I can send and receive for both addresses. Easy to do if one follows the recipe exactly, except needs Google account to be set to "accept from less safe apps".

As described very well elsewhere, gmail to gmail or any other address is very quick. PN to PN or any other email address is usually reasonably quick. However, PN to gmail risks being delayed an insane length of time ( I have experienced anything between 8 minutes and 45 HOURS!!). Looking back, I can remember several occasions where I have sent PN messages asking for a reply and then wondered why a recipient was so slow to respond. I check their contact address and find they are a gmail person. Not their fault - they responded as soon as it arrived.

It's rather like being in a queue at a customs border, where many cars are waved through unchecked, but one unlucky family are hauled from their car, all their luggage unloaded and searched and the car impounded for a day.

Requesting a Read Receipt might be a small but useful action.

 

JHA1E
Grafter
Posts: 41
Thanks: 13
Registered: ‎11-09-2015

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

This is exactly what I have done except that I use Outlook not Windows Live. In Outlook I have set the reply address on my GMail account to my PN email address. I have to remember to use my GMail address when sending to a GMail email address.

It is difficult to understand the Google logic. If they are concerned about the number of free GMail addresses, why it is possible to create new email addresses without restriction.

barcud
Grafter
Posts: 27
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎05-11-2014

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

Agreed JHA1E

Outlook is my preferred solution.

 I use it for my Plusnet email, and also, gmail, outlook,com and office365 accounts.

It makes it so easy to send using gmail if necessary, with the reply routed via plusnet.

buckley45
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎21-01-2017

Re: Mail delivery to recipients taking 5hrs plus

11 Jan 2019.  I sent an email to my son's gmail account from my Windows live mail last night.  It took just over 12 hours to receive it.  Post might have been quicker.  I'm not clear on whether or not it is a general problem, or, only with Windows Live Mail.  My other two friends that I communicate with most frequently also have gmail addresses.  If I want to reliably send them an urgent message I have to use my phone and gmail.  I'm not totally sure why that works however as the gmail that I send must go through my wifi / plusnet.

 

edit, I'm assuming that this is only a Plusnet problem and thinking that as my contract will soon come to an end that I could jump ship after many years with Plusnet.