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Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

totterdell
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎06-09-2018

Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

Hi Harry,

Well I'm completely confused now.

Do you mean that Plusnet would lock us out of email sending, from any IP address, because of an alleged problem with a Pine Media IP address? If it were an IP block, why would it affect three separate addresses simultaneously? And if there were a reason to block our sending email, surely there would be some message to explain the situation and a route to a resolution?

I know that Plusnet have a poor relationship with BT, with emails to .btinternet.com addresses being blocked for Plusnet users, like me and others that I know, despite being owned by the same company (domain has no 'spf record' or some such shortcoming in Plusnet protocol) but blocking your own clients from using your outgoing servers is ridiculous.

Please look again and find what it was the Plusnet changed yesterday. Things don't just stop working without someone changing something. Conversely, it won't start working again unless Plusnet fixes it.

 

MisterW
Superuser
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

@totterdell  your initial test using telnet really only proves that the port is open.

As @Townman  said earlier, you need to try and complete the logon process to see what exactly the problem is. There's an example of whats' needed here http://www.vsysad.com/2013/10/testing-smtp-server-from-the-command-line/

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

HarryB
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

With all due respect, it's not necessarily our customer trying to send from an email address we're providing. If you had been hacked (I'm absolutely not saying this is what has happened, this is just a hypothetical) and suddenly your email was sending out a copious amount of spam, but from an IP known for spamming, this would stop the spam going out through our servers.

 

While I can't check your mobile data IP, your current IP address that you're using to browse the forums is listed on spam blacklist(s).

 

I also can't check when you started using the current IP address, however if you're on a dynamic IP, it's possible that the change yesterday was you getting a new IP that has a poor reputation.

As this isn't our IP address, I'd recommend discussing it with your ISP that is providing you the IP Address.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Harry Beesley
 Plusnet
totterdell
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎06-09-2018

Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

I am not surprised if my ip is on btinternet's blacklist. That is because Plusnet doesn't have an email protocol that is compatible with btinternet - you only have to send a copy of blind copies to btinternet addresses from a plusnet account and you are blocked as suspected spam.

 

Anyway, I'm not buying it. An IP block would not wipe out our login from all our devices.

 

Look again and find the real fault that Plusnet introduced yesterday.

 

I am happy to attend a meeting at your offices in Sheffield to discuss this. I have done it before and it is amazing how quickly a solution is found. Back in the day, your MD had a couple of dogs. I am happy to bring Oscar.

Nick

Townman
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

This is not helping any.

There are three stages to sending an email...

1.prove connectivity to the smtp server - the telnet test proved you could connect.

2. Verify logon credentials for the server - you did not say you got that far in the telnet test I guided you to.

3. Send an email - again you did not get that far.

I would agree that not being able to send from any IP address (not on the PlusNET network) seems very odd, but @HarryB has a lot of experience around here. If he says the IP address you have been allocated by your third party network provider is blackballed then that is not going to help.

[Harry is it possible that (given the ACCOUNT has become associated with a black-balled IP address), the account is now black balled on ANY IP address not on the PN network?]

You make reference to PlusNET having defective “protocols” - could you please clarify that? The SMTP protocols are sound.

SPF is not a protocol (as understood by the term) and if it were it would not be causing the problem you are reporting. It has nothing to do with LOGIN to the smtp server. It is though a desirable OPTIONAL aid to inhibiting the generation of SPAM originating from SMTP servers not authorised for the sending email address.

As asked before, EXACTLY what error message are you receiving and when please?

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Townman
Superuser
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Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

Rereading the topic...

Gmail on android - surely that is a @gmail.com email address which should be using the GMAIL SMTP not PlusNET’s?

So as to not be presuming where the failures are being seen, in attempting to send via plusnet’s SMTP relay, can you please confirm that the sending address is mailbox@youraccount.plus.com (or your Plusnet hosted domain)?

Emails related to Hotmail or Gmail or Outlook.com should be sent via their respective smtp servers. If that is how your mail applications are configured and they are failing too, then there is some possibility that they too do not like your IP address either.

That said it does not explain why the EE connected device sees the same errors ... unless it is actually connecting over WiFi and not 3/4G mobile data service.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

totterdell
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎06-09-2018

Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

OK

I am struggling wth the Telnet on the Win10 machine because I am entirely unfamiliar with Telnet protocols and the example I was pointed to would need some tweaks to get it to work.

The issue with Plusnet and btinternet I have raised before. Btinternet.com addresses see my email as spam. This is possibly because I have sent a couple of emails with multiple btinternet.com suffixed addresses as blind copies. When I queried this with btinternet via one of my friends, who I stopped being able to send emails to, they got the following reply from btinternet:

 

The domain"@XXX.co.uk" having no spf record.The traffic sent by such domain with no SPF record would be less.
An SPF record is required to increase the traffic limit.No SPF record results in rejecting the mails once the counter reached its limit.
but the domain holder should be made aware to modify their SPF records in-order to ensure timely delivery of mails.Kindly contact ISP/Email provider  to   make changes.

So it seems that Plusnet email is missing an "spf" record, whatever that is. Since this episode I have been contacted by another friend who is a Plusnet account holder who is having similar bounce errors with btinternet email addresses. All of which is not relevant to the case in hand but this Plusnet/btinternet incompatibility has been a nuisance to me.

What is Gmail on Android? Gmail in this context is an email client app which runs on the android platform. I don't have a Gmail email address.

In the Gmail app I have four email addresses configured; my phone network is EE:

1. XXX@hotmail.com works fine

2. XXX@XXX.co.uk stopped working on Monday - the Gmail app says "credentials needed" and asks for outgoing server settings.

3. XXX@XXX.co,uk stopped working on Monday - the Gmail app says "credentials needed" and asks for outgoing server settings.

4.XXX@XXXX.co.uk stopped working on Monday - the Gmail app says "credentials needed" and asks for outgoing server settings. (I only have this on my phone after all the Plusnet problems last year).

My wife previously used an email client on her iPhone with the same setting as her address on my phone. Doesn't work since yesterday.

Anyway, I have made some progress now as I just realised that we have been trying the phone email clients using our wifi - and of course this uses the same IP address as the computer. Trying on 4G there is no problem.

So you are correct. Plusnet is blocking our Pine Media IP for some reason known only to it.

I will contact Pine Media and ask if they can change our IP address - I don't know if it is static or dynamic.

In the meantime, please remove the Plusnet block on our current IP address.

 

Moderators Note

Redacted email addresses as it's a public forum. These are still visible to staff

MatthewWheeler
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

Thanks for getting back to us @totterdell

We've raised this to our networks team to check further and we'll update you as soon as we know more

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
totterdell
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎06-09-2018

Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

Thanks Matthew

We know now what the source of the problem is - well done to Townman for spotting that we were probably using all the devices on Wifi and therefore through the same IP. I hadn't actually read that but had the same thought and turned off the Wifi on my phone at which point it miraculously logged into the outgoing server OK.

It is a bit painful that the IP blocking is not obvious to a user. I don't know yet whether my IP is static with Pine Media but it probably isn't - so I might just be inheriting a bad reputation from another user. Alternatively I worry that if it is a static IP, the lack of an SPF record on the Plusnet emails might have led to my account having a bad reputation with btinternet and precipitated this problem - a bit of an own goal if that is the case. Internet at our location is hard work but we now have a fixed microwave link to an access mast nearer Sheffield. This is faster and more reliable than 4G but does suffer from blocking if there is thick fog or heavy low cloud.

I have sent a message to Pine Media and explained the problem with their IP address - they might find a solution by changing the address tomorrow. We live in hope.

Townman
Superuser
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Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

Hi Nick,

Thank you for the detailed clarifications. It really helps, especially confirming that the phones were indeed connecting over WiFi - things start to make much more sense.

As for SPF in hosted domains and BT unhelpfullness seeking to enforce optional standards (somewhat akin to the Gmail issue) I have asked a question in the SU discussion space as to what can be done to address BT’s challenging behaviour.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

RandallFlagg
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
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Posts: 1,915
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Registered: ‎11-01-2018

Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

 

Thanks for the update, both.

 

I'll ask @MattWheeler to take a look at this when he's in the office later today.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

MatthewWheeler
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

Thanks for your patience.

We've been advised that there is no block in place on that IP address.

Can you send us a screengrab of the error you're getting?

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
totterdell
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎06-09-2018

Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

Hi Matthew

 

I have had another go with Telnet but it doesn't respond quite like examples on the web. Here is the story of Telnet:

Welcome to Microsoft Telnet Client

Escape Character is 'CTRL+]'

Microsoft Telnet> set localecho
Local echo on
Microsoft Telnet> set logfile c:\temp\telnet.log
Log file : c:\temp\telnet.log
Client logging on
Microsoft Telnet>open relay.force9.net 25
220 avasout02 smtp relay.force9.net
ehlo totterdell.co.uk
250-avasout02 hello [185.152.3.52], pleased to meet you
250-HELP
250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
250-SIZE 104857600
250-PIPELINING
250-8BITMIME
250 OK

450 too long without DATA command (closing session)

Just tried a test message so I could send a screenshot of the error and there was no error. Is the IP address in the above Telnet message the same as the one that I was using since Monday. I wonder if Pine Media changed the address and possibly before you had the address checked with your network team?

Anyway, it is working again today, whoopee. But it would be useful to know what has changed to make it work again.

Thanks Nick

 

Moderator's note by Adie (Dvorak) removed personal information

RandallFlagg
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 1,915
Fixes: 75
Registered: ‎11-01-2018

Re: Cannot log into relay.force9.net today

 

Hi @totterdell

 

We haven't made any changes from this side, but I'm pleased to hear that this is now working nonetheless.

 

Anything else you need, just drop us a line.

 

Best wishes

 

Dave