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BTOpenworld messages not delivered

FIXED
Peter_at_5
Newbie
Posts: 3
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 1
Registered: 24-05-2018

BTOpenworld messages not delivered

Hi

Both my wife and I use email accounts with BTOpenworld.com.  For many years we have sent and received messages from our desk top computer.  Some 3 or 4 weeks ago however I realised that messages we had sent were not being received by the recipient.

I do not know how the e-mail systems work, although I assume when I click Send, the message gets sent to the PlusNet mail server (relay.plus.net server) who then sends it to BT to check my address is a valid one, and they then send the e-mail to the recipient(s).

If my assumption is right; has the mapping/algorithm/method of sending the e-mails from PN to BT changed?

A few years ago, BT sold some, or all, of their BTOpenworld clients to Yahoo.  I know that if I go to the BT web mail server, they do not recognise my account.  I have to log into BT-Yahoo. Is it possible that recently PN changed their set up and no longer send my e-mail to BT-Yahoo?

I still receive e-mail from multiple sources, so the incoming BT-Yahoo part works.  If I log into the BT-Yahoo web mail, I can send messages OK, so again, the BT-Yahoo part seems to be alright. I can also send e-mail from my home computer with my own web site e-mail account (i.e. not involving the BTOpenworld address), and they work fine, so the sending from my computer is OK  - it is only the link between PN and BT-Yahoo that appears not to work.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, as I have double checked all settings and can find nothing strange.

Regards

Peter

 

6 REPLIES
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 12,222
Thanks: 3,527
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: BTOpenworld messages not delivered

Hi Peter,

A warm welcome to the forums.

May I clarify how you have your email set up? From you description are you advising that you use the PlusNET smtp server (relay.plus.net) to send emails ‘from’ your BT-Yahoo email addresses?

Whilst in principle there is nothing too wrong with this approach, it is not ideal. You ought to be using BT-Yahoo smtp server using your BT-Yahoo account credentials in the email account settings. The approach you have taken is akin to spoofing your own email address - sending in the name of some other email address via an unrelated smtp service.

As the industry slowly sorts out addressing the massive volume of spam, technologies such as SFP are being more rigorously implemented. Put simply SPF is a method of telling the world that SMTP server X is a valid sender for emails from domain Y. Receiving email services then check that an email from Y was sent by X, if it was not the email is not delivered.

If BT-Yahoo have recently implemented SPF sending emails via PlusNET’s SMTP server will be seen as invalid. Using BT-Yahoo’s SMTP server will address that issue.
Peter_at_5
Newbie
Posts: 3
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 1
Registered: 24-05-2018

Re: BTOpenworld messages not delivered

Dear Townman

Thank you for your welcome, and in particular for taking the time to reply.

 

You will have to forgive my lack of knowledge regarding e-mail.

When I originally set up my home computer, I followed the instructions on PN, viz:

For my e-mail address @BTOpenworld.com, I set up the home computer Windows Live Mail with Incoming mail (POP) server set to "mail.btinternet.com"; and Outgoing mail (SMTP) server set to "relay.plus.net".

As PN is my Broadband supplier, these set ups seemed reasonable. If I had used BT-Yahoo for the Outgoing server too, I had thought they would reject all messages as they did not provide the Broadband.  From your reply, have I got this wrong, and do I indeed need to make BT-Yahoo my Outgoing server too?

 

Best regards

Peter

 

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 12,222
Thanks: 3,527
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: BTOpenworld messages not delivered

Hi Peter,

This space can be confusing due to the history of how things used to work / be implemented. It would be interesting to see a link to those instructions. In general the PlusNET set up instructions are for PlusNET email addresses.

In times past when conputers were not so mobile, SMTP servers were not configured to allow off network authenticated connections. Therefore one had to use a SMTP server which was ‘local’ to the network one was connected to. Therefore as you have described, one connected the incoming to (say) BT-Yahoo and the out going to the ISP’s SMTP server.

This approach causes a lot of problems when computers are mobile, moving to different networks from different suppliers - it used to require smtp server details to be changed on each network move.

The solution is to use the SMPT server associated with the email service provider using authentication - usually identical to the setting for the inbound email.

This approach also allows additional technologies to be implemented to help reduce spam. I suspect BT-Yahoo might have done exactly this. Try using BT-Yahoo smtp settings - http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/44917/~/what-are-the-settings-for-outgoing-and-incomi...

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 9,655
Thanks: 1,060
Fixes: 59
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: BTOpenworld messages not delivered

Hi @Peter_at_5

As @Townman said, in principle there is nothing wrong with your existing way of working, but it has the potential to become problematical (stop working), though the cause of your current problem might not be related to that.

One thing it might be useful to explain is that, as you assumed, messages you send will go to server relay.plus.net; That server will check the sender domain (the part after the @ - btopenworld.com here) is valid - which it is, then check the recipient domain (the part of "to" after the @) is also valid. If these pass the email then goes directly to the recipient's incoming server which (for spam prevention purposes) might also check the sender domain and origin server. It then checks the local part of "to" (before the @) is valid, and will likely reject the message if it isn't.

However in your case the message might not be getting off your own computer. Have you checked for messages stuck in Outbox?

Does your computer run Windows, is that Windows 10 and has it updated to version 1803, the April 2018 release since email last worked? These are just questions for diagnostic purposes, I'm not aware of problems with Windows Live Mail caused by the upgrade.

Edit: both of us posting around the same time. Huh

David
Peter_at_5
Newbie
Posts: 3
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 1
Registered: 24-05-2018

Re: BTOpenworld messages not delivered

Fix

Dear Townman & spraxyt

Thank you both for your replies. Spraxyt, I have Windows 10, and the problem started before the recent upgrade, so that was not the issue.  I also checked sent item folders, drafts and everything else I could think of.

 

The solution though was the one put forward by Townman, to whom I am very grateful.

I found the Yahoo outgoing settings and changed my e-mail properties to them, and exactly as predicted, the problem disappeared.  For many years I had the old settings without ever realising there was a potential issue, but that now is thankfully resolved.

 

Once again, thank you both very much for the time you have spent on my behalf; the detailed explanations so I can understand what I am doing; and of course, the solution.

Best regards

Peter

 

 

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 12,222
Thanks: 3,527
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: BTOpenworld messages not delivered

Peter,

Pleased to have been able to assist and that you have a resolution. I suspect that the change here is that BT-Yahoo have enhanced their spam prevention measures ... wish more email providers would do likewise!!