Any Email Experts Here?

[#1]

Not really plusnet specific issue but I feel like I'm banging my head at the minute, I guess there's a lot of more techy than I people here so thought it was worth a punt.

I'll try and breifly explain what I'm trying to achieve here and see if anyone can pick up the issue. Firstly, I'm trying to get Outlook web version, my phone and my laptop to sync up emails. I have a co.uk address set up as a mail box on my plusnet account so I'm assuming that from that I can use either pop3 or IMAP connection styles, can you mix the systems or is that a no no would be my first question?

The issue I have is when I use my account as a pop3 registered with outlook web version if I send an email from my phone it doesn't sync to the sent folder in outlook web and vice versa if I send from outlook web it doesn't show up on the phone.

If I change the settings in outlook web to access my co.uk address using IMAP sent items from my phone show up in sent items on outlook web but when I send from outlook web sent items don't show up in outlook web or the phone.

The two issues above are when using the phone email client (Blackberry Android Hub app)

The reason I got into this dilemma was using the Android Outlook App I used to have the option of "send from" either my outlook account or my co.uk address but since one of the updates the co.uk doesn't show up as an option. My understanding is that it doesn't support pop3 anymore but if your pop3 account is registered in outlook web it should see it in the mobile app. However, I tried setting up my co.uk in the outlook app using IMAP settings and still in the app no send from my co.uk. Changed it back to pop3 and set it has my primary alias and now there is another send option in the mobile app but the address from is gobbeldygook@outlook.com not even sure what it is, I assumed that that must be the co.uk address and sent an email but the recipient sees the random numbers @outlook.com and not my co.uk address!

Does any of that make sense to anybody and know which direction to go down? It's a PITA when I only have emails on certain devices and this did work fine until just recently.

[#2]

---

AWB70 wrote:I'll try and breifly explain what I'm trying to achieve here and see if anyone can pick up the issue. Firstly, I'm trying to get Outlook web version, my phone and my laptop to sync up emails. I have a co.uk address set up as a mail box on my plusnet account so I'm assuming that from that I can use either pop3 or IMAP connection styles, can you mix the systems or is that a no no would be my first question?

According to

https://www.plus.net/help/email-guides/how-to-set-up-plusnet-email/#what-other-settings-do-i-need

you can certainly have pop3 & imap - but not usually in the same app/client.

I'm surprised the port numbers aren't 993 for IMAP and 465 for SMTP, both with SSL set.- or port 995 for POP3 incoming

The issue I have is when I use my account as a pop3 registered with outlook web version if I send an email from my phone it doesn't sync to the sent folder in outlook web and vice versa if I send from outlook web it doesn't show up on the phone.

Only IMAP can sync sending from accounts, because the servers holds the information for an IMAP accessed account. A POP3 account used to send emails will store the sent details only on the device that sends the message.

If I change the settings in outlook web to access my co.uk address using IMAP sent items from my phone show up in sent items on outlook web but when I send from outlook web sent items don't show up in outlook web or the phone.

You can't actually change an account to be IMAP from POP3 or visa versa, you will need to delete the account and re-add. However, once that is done - you should be able to see the info as you've said. If items don't show up in the sent items, is there a setting you need to change to store sent items?

Note that you can lose all the emails (in the device only) if it's a POP3 account on the device, so you may need to backup the account somewhere offline, or may be able to store any of the received/sent emails on that device account.

The two issues above are when using the phone email client (Blackberry Android Hub app)

The reason I got into this dilemma was using the Android Outlook App I used to have the option of "send from" either my outlook account or my co.uk address but since one of the updates the co.uk doesn't show up as an option. My understanding is that it doesn't support pop3 anymore but if your pop3 account is registered in outlook web it should see it in the mobile app. However, I tried setting up my co.uk in the outlook app using IMAP settings and still in the app no send from my co.uk. Changed it back to pop3 and set it has my primary alias and now there is another send option in the mobile app but the address from is gobbeldygook@outlook.com not even sure what it is, I assumed that that must be the co.uk address and sent an email but the recipient sees the random numbers @outlook.com and not my co.uk address!

Outlook App is not a particularly friendly app for some people - there are plenty of better ones in my view, like K9, Cloudmagic and Gmail. The Outlook address I believe is an internal one, effectively created when using the Outlook App - though I'm not too sure about that. However as you changed the default sending address to use your address rather than the weird Outlook address, then that should be fine - apart from being POP3.

Does any of that make sense to anybody and know which direction to go down? It's a PITA when I only have emails on certain devices and this did work fine until just recently.

---

Not sure I've given anything helpful, just stuff I'm aware of. Sometimes the sync seems to fail for some devices/apps - so don't know why that would happen.

SD

[#3]

Thanks buddy for taking the time to answer.

I'm surprised the port numbers aren't 993 for IMAP and 465 for SMTP, both with SSL set.- or port 995 for POP3 incoming

AFAIK there is no ssl on plusnet email, any time I've tried to use it it wouldn't connect. I've used the imap settings off the Plusnet page. I also tried deleting the accounts from both outlook web and my phone and setting up again both using the plusnet IMAP settings and a new set of folders in case there was some conflict there. Same thing, send from phone and it appears in sent folder in Outlook Web.

Searching the web I have to come to the conclusion that the issue is that outlook web is having issues. It doesn't appear to save sent emails into the sent folder after sending. There are plenty of solutions for syncing folders if you have the proper version of outlook but the web version is very limited. Searching the internet there are lots of people asking the same question from Microsoft support but nobody seemingly getting any answers.

The Outlook address I believe is an internal one, effectively created when using the Outlook App - though I'm not too sure about that. However as you changed the default sending address to use your address rather than the weird Outlook address, then that should be fine - apart from being POP3.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. This has worked for over a year without an issue, send has always given me the option of meatmy@outlook account or meatmy.co.uk account. Don't know why this issued email address has the format it has but obviously I don't want to be sending that out as an email. Don't know when that changed, must have been during one of the updates of which there are many.

Ironically, although pop3 is supposed to just keep the sent email on device, when I add my co.uk address to outlook as a pop3 it seems to sync across outlook web, my phone via outlook app and my W10 laptop with its built in email client. Just can't send on my phone using the outlook app.(Not using my co.uk anyway)

Maybe trying another client is the answer, maybe I should try google and see how that pans out. Obviously outlook had a couple of issues on both the web version and mobile app right now.

[#4]

If you are expecting emails to sync across multiple devices (and/or webmail) you MUST use IMAP for everything.

Using POP3 sent emails are held only in the mail client and are not copied to the mail server.

There is (or was) a Plusnet SMTP server with SSL for outgoing mail, but only a select few people were told about it by Bob Pullen.

[#5]

Hiya @jelv I have changed all connected devices and accounts to imap only. The only thing that doesn't sync right now is sent emails from outlook mail on web, soon as I send an email it disappears. Most of the solutions I have found are related to Outlook software and not the web version. It's fair to say that any MS support sites have no answers about it, lot of people complaining but then the thread drops dead. So far only adhoc solution has been to blind copy yourself into the email so you have some record of it but obviously that isn't ideal.

Right now I appear to be stuck between a rock and a hard place, I came across this post https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Fixes-or-workarounds-for-recent-issues-on-Outlook-com-8c95d... Looks like that could be including the outlook mobile app and would certainly explain why I get the option to send from a strange email account. (See attached screenshot)

I'm going to try setting up Thunderbird with IMAP settings and see if that saves in the sent folder. At least with TB I have some options of creating email rules whereas with the web version its very limited. I have one Linux machine in my system so I need to use the web version at times but maybe I will go back to TB if I can get everything working. Maybe Gmail is an option also. MS seems to be having problems with it right now on both their web version and mobile app.

[#6]

---

@AWB70 wrote:
I'm going to try setting up Thunderbird with IMAP settings and see if that saves in the sent folder

---

It does - I've been using Thunderbird with IMAP for years!

[#7]

Yeah jelv, I've also been a TBird user for a number of years but found it could be glitch at times. I think I've got to the bottom of this and can see where the problems lies but still no solution.

Up to press I have Tbird on my Linux system syncing and my phone both on IMAP. Work quite well actually regarding speed of syncing folders. Also have the plusnet webmail syncing as a back up which has enough features for me.

The problem is with MS products, they don't seem to like using a 3rd party imap account because of the folder structure. What I'm finding is that Tbird, Plusnet server and my phone all have a folder called "sent", obviously where sent email get put after sending but in Windows the same folder is called "sent items" This appears to give a conflict if you import your imap email address account into outlook and combine folders. Best way to do it import in as a new set of folders, however, in my case using the built in mail app with windows 10 and Outlook web both default to using the "Sent items" folder following send. There doesn't appear to be any options for creating an email rule or setting the "sent" folder as the default. From what I understand that feature is available in paid for Outlook versions.

Looks like I'm back to using TBirdon linux and the plusnet webmail on my W10 computer until that feature becomes available. I can still use the W10 email app but it means remembering to copy any email I've sent over to the sent folder, not sure how this is going to work with replies so probably more hassle than it's worth.

The Sent items folder has actually turned up on my mobile but I notice that it doesn't show up in plusnet webmail or if adding a folder in webmail is even possible? I'll have to check tomorrow when I'm at work to see if the "sent items" folder has turned up that system. It only showed when I added my account on the w10 laptop.

I guess that's the problems you come across when trying to make different email clients all sync, especially when MS uses different folder structures.

[#8]

BTW I take back what I was saying about PN Webmail. The sent items folder does show up in there if you expand the folders and tick it to stay in the menu.

[#9]

As an added complication to different folder names there is also folder placement. Plusnet mailboxes have folders as children of Inbox. I think it was the W10 Mail app that asumes and works only with top level folders. IIRC supplying a folder prefix is not an option.

[#10]

Hi @spraxyt yes indeed, that is the case. You would have thought that in the world of the internet and various mail clients used that standardisation of the folder hierarchy would be imperative. I would imagine though that different companies use different layouts to make you use their ecosystem. If they can't sell you the software they need to recoup with advertising and data analysis. Microsoft are aware that their folder mapping doesn't tie in with a lot of IMAP accounts as is evident with their fixes for outllook paid for. On all their paid up software there is an option to pick which folders sync and which folder outlook should use for saving sent emails in, this isn't the case on OWA or built in W10 app. They know there is going to be an issue has they have came across it before but have missed out the fix which should be quite simple.

Looks like it's time for me to choose my weapon. Considering MS put me in this position I think I will stick with using TBird for linux at work and my phones built in email client to keep things simple. I'll just have to use plusnet webmail on the W10 laptop/tablet.

Would be nice to have everything going through the same client but I find OWA a bit clunky at times and then there's the adverts. I have to keep the outlook account on my phone just not syncing email and use it mainly for syncing contacts and calender items. I use TZpush with TBird which is fine but I think it's only possible to sync one way, from out look to TBird, anything I add in TBird doesn't go across to outlook, I suspect that's a similar issue where MS call the folder something else.

[#11]

When it comes to folder names there are standards, but not all products have the options to utilise them.

• Sent mail can be in "Sent" or "Sent Items"
• Deleted in "Trash" or "Deleted Items"

Many email clients allow one to choose which server folder will be used for each of Sent, Deleted and Draft emails.  Of one particular note the Win10 email program does not.  It will not save drafts to the server and insists on sent mail being placed in "Sent Items" thereby requiring that where multiple email clients are being used, they must ALL use the "Sent Items" folder.

[#12]

I use a mixture of Pop3 and IMAP, on multiple email accounts.

My phone uses IMAP, so it sysncs to the mail server: new mail shows up nicely, and as old mail disappears from the server (see later) it disappears from my phone, which keeps the storage space to a minimum. I have no need to keep old emails on my phone. Also, when I get "junkmail" on the account, if I delete it on my phone, it deletes it on the server (so I don't get it on my PCs!)

I have 2 PC's: a desktop machine, and a laptop. Both of those are set up identically using POP3. They are both set up to (a) delete mail on the server when deleted from the deleted items and (b) delete mail on the server after 7 days. This controls what my phone gets quite nicely: any junk disappears quickly, anything else goes after 7 days. Being POP3, both machines download the emails, which means that I can keep emails on either or both machines. 

The main downside of the way this is setup is, as others have noted, that any mail sent from one machine is not sent to the other... so if it's important, I just BCC myself in (now it will hit both machines!). Actually, same applies to emails from the phone.

[#13]

Hmmm, that's got me thinking that. If I have some important emails on my phone but don't  need really them on there I need to be backing them up somewhere before deleting so I don't lose them permanently. What would happen if I was to wipe my phone I wonder? Will it delete them from my pc the next time I install my email account back on it? Surely there must be some method of syncing so it knows which device deleted and which didn't.

[#14]

Using IMAP everywhere is a far simpler option. Emails are only ever ON the server and are simply sync’d to the device, so if you “delete” a mailbox on a device ... the emails remain in place on the server.

Of course on one of your devices you could copy (archive) important emails to a local folder ... but do ensure that you have a viable backup strategy for that device.

[#15]

I use POP3 but then again I only have three devices and they are setup so that the phone leaves them on the server and the laptop and desktop only remove after 10 days
So I always have the emails on two devices and the desktop is backed up onto an external drive every evening

My better half also has three devices but in her case they consist of a tablet and phone which don't delete them from the server and the the desktop deletes after 10 days with automatic backups every evening to an external hard drive

Works for me