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what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

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what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

what would it take to club together, buy a central and start a not-for-profit, cooperative ISP, purely for the benefit of its members?

could it work?
28 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

err... OK, thats £1.25 Million for the Central, 120K for the ERX (which is at the end of the central), you probably need a spare as well, something for the BT support contract. Add to that the cost to connect to the main internet peers, Some co-location space for the rack, you will need a few engineers to keep it going.

That's probably around £2 and a bit Million so far.

That's before you get any customers, and each one you will have to pay BT £8.40/month for the ADSL connection.

Do I need to go on.
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what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

Plusnet pay all this for us and we still moan at them? I don't think I can sleep at night now. :shock:
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what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

Lol,

Drinking horlix helps you sleep at night :lol:
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what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

hehe, figured it might be something like that.. maybe when BT wholsesale reduces its prices then Wink
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,826
Thanks: 153
Fixes: 2
Registered: 05-04-2007

what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

Hmm, but if PlusNet didn't invest in PlusTalk or the shop and focused their efforts into capacity (at about the same time both were launched), and weren't so concerned about being a PLC or the share price ... I wonder if the current 13Gb cap or the couple of minutes it currently takes the home page of www.easynews.com to load would be different?

I've not really used P2P recently, but given it takes longer to load a binary usenet provider's homepage (which has one 15k jpeg logo and just text) than it would on dial-up then to be frankly honest I can't be bothered to try. But I take it a lot was done regarding the 55-odd page response thread asking what effect the Elllacoya 6.4 rollout had done after being pushed out? Obviously the testing which had been performed needed to be confirmed. Whoops .. think I maybe jumping to conclusions there ...?

Still not PlusNet's fault, obviously BT wholesale... Evil

I wonder if the takeover news (or rather confirmation as we all suspected) was a coincidence since it came not long after the customer update ...?
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

Ah, I forgot the Ellacoya (another 100K I think) to 'manage' all those heavy users that would jump on the ISP if it had no traffic management.

Plus the Central cost is per year.

I think I'm done Wink
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what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

According to PN they have 200K subscribes, so let's say the average subscription is £20 per month will generate £4 million. Minus the line rental to BT and this will leave £2.26 million a month. Loads of money for investment for reliable equipment and systems. :shock:
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what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

Quote
Ah, I forgot the Ellacoya (another 100K I think) to 'manage' all those heavy users that would jump on the ISP if it had no traffic management.


:lol:

but surely we would make our cooperatives sign up to a fair usage policy? any that flaunt the policy would be cast from the bosom .. so to speak. maybe im beginning to understand the problems associated with running an ISP Wink
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,826
Thanks: 153
Fixes: 2
Registered: 05-04-2007

what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

Just an aside - I have no problem with traffic management and even NTL have announced today they have started to use it. I can see the reasons why, as people are always going to take the piss.

However PlusNet don't seem to be able to implement it in a fashion without making it a misery to even light users.

The whole marketing spiel in the past is the limits are not 'hard caps' and that it is managed if you go over - pretty much to 14.4k modem speeds - I am sure it is not just me who has noticed this thanks to Ellacoya.

I wonder how many would prefer a hard cap instead .. an x amount of Gb where the internet is wholly usable up until that point where it stops completely. Taking the figure of 13Gb, then it's going to be a lot more usable for someone who does the occasional browsing and ends up downloading P2P more (like online games do to save the publisher money in bandwidth), than someone who might use more wholly on (non-blacklisted sites - unlike easynews) http.
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what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

What you suggest is not traffic management but useasge management. These are not the same.
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what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

and so the circular argument begins again... what happens if too many people try to use their 13gb at the same time on an all ready insufficient network? time critical applications suffer, hence the need to prioritise... but then we are back to the issue of paying for bandwidth and wanting to be able to use it in anyway you see fit up to the limit .. etc etc... we just go round and round and round.

the only answer is for plusnet to invest in capacity. which they refuse to do.
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,826
Thanks: 153
Fixes: 2
Registered: 05-04-2007

what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

Quote
What you suggest is not traffic management but useasge management. These are not the same.

Yep I understand that - it makes a difference on how capacity should be managed to accomodate both types of pricing model.

Esssentialy the difference to what PAYG and other accounts should be for PlusNet. I say should as I've never used PAYG so can't compare what the performance should be/is actually like.
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

Quote
the only answer is for plusnet to invest in capacity. which they refuse to do.

Unfortunately that is not the easy solution it appears to be. Whatever capacity they add will just be used up immediately by P2P etc.

In fact, that is what PN actually did over 2 years ago and exactly what happened. In one case they added a new 155Mbs central and within 2 hours they had reach the capacity limit again. They then added another one a few weeks later and the same thing happened. P2P is designed to use up as much bandwidth as it can get.

Eventually they ended up with too much central capacity which they could no longer afford so they started introducing limits and investing in traffic management and cut centrals to meet their product design. And its been going wrong ever since :?
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,341
Thanks: 595
Fixes: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

what would it take to club together, buy a central and ...

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the only answer is for plusnet to invest in capacity. which they refuse to do.


and what makes that worse is that Apparently Ian Wild has said:

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... about PN having new bandwidth permanently "on standby" ready to light up.


Linky
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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