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usage limits, a thought

winnipeg1823
Grafter
Posts: 156
Registered: 08-08-2007

usage limits, a thought

Not being an expert this may be totally wrong, but, when the 4gb limit is reached on BB+ the download speeds are reduced. is this to stop people taking all the available space for long periods, or is it a punishment.

But by reducing the download speed, doesnt that just mean that the downloads (and browsing) will actually take longer, therefore meaning more time online, and actually spending more time downloading, and thus taking up the space for longer than they were before any limits were placed on them. Also, as I understand it, the more people online on any one exchange, causes speed loss for everyone, so therefore if those with download limits are spending more time online, then that effects the speeds of everyone.Is any of the above correct, or have I got it completly wrong,.
75 REPLIES
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

usage limits, a thought

The simple thinking is that with broadband the more you download the more it costs the ISP. So on a fixed priced. product like Broadband Plus there's a point where the amount you are using costs us more than you are paying.

There's several answers on what to do at that point, we could

a) Do nothing and allow you to continue, problem here being that it just becomes more and more unprofitable

b) Charge more when you reach a certain amount, BBYW does this, as did PAYG

c) Block access or reduce speeds, by doing this you can ensure a fairer share of the network for everyone.

We can budget for the normal usage but where customers are using more than the usage allowances we can ensure that they aren't impacting on everyone else.

People may well continue to download stuff once they are slowed down and yeah it will take longer because it's slower but they may also choose to upgrade or schedule usage overnight when it isn't counted.
grimreality
Grafter
Posts: 74
Registered: 06-08-2007

usage limits, a thought

That is a proper bull() answer. I signed up for unlimited service and shortly after signing they sent an email stating that the free install means that if I cancel anytime in the future I have to pay for the install and the unlimited is not unlimited and you have all types of restrictions.

I have worked at ISP's in the States and have had service for multiple years in Canada. When you signed up for unlimited service you got UNLIMITED service.

On lower packages you had restrictions placed on the account but none of this Prime Time usage limits. Never heard of this type of service until I came to this country.
N/A

usage limits, a thought

bixby,

I see you joined in December 2005. I dont believe that you did sign up to an unlimited account as by this point a fair usage policy was already in place.
If you had joined about the same time as me then yes I would agree with you on what it said when you joined as it was not too long after I joined (a couple or few months later).

Thing is that when the contract changed you were notified and were given the option of leaving without penalty.
winnipeg1823
Grafter
Posts: 156
Registered: 08-08-2007

usage limits, a thought

Quote
People may well continue to download stuff once they are slowed down and yeah it will take longer because it's slower but they may also choose to upgrade or schedule usage overnight when it isn't counted


Has any work been done around this, i.e. how many people who have had restrictions placed on them have actually moved products. If the figure is low, then the restrictions would not appear to be working in a way plusnet thought they would do, and perhaps need a little tweaking!!
grimreality
Grafter
Posts: 74
Registered: 06-08-2007

usage limits, a thought

When I signed up I talked to a representative first and they did confirm that the service would be unlimited.

There was no fair use policy in place when I joined.
chrisc
Grafter
Posts: 688
Registered: 19-04-2007

usage limits, a thought

The last time that any of our products were advertised as unlimited was November 2004.

Bixby, as you signed up in 2005 then you definitely did not sign
up to an unlimited package as the fair use policy was in place at this time.
grimreality
Grafter
Posts: 74
Registered: 06-08-2007

usage limits, a thought

Never realised people can get wound up so easily and tightly.

You try and wind up one person and the next thing you know you have half the forum and most of the managment wound up as well all ready to have an aneurism.

But on to other things I was told by someone when I called that it was unlimited. Not stating that there was such a thing or not just stating what your coworker (ccotterill) informed me was unlimited service.

I have had very little issue with my connection in the past 6 months, normally don't call in as the down times are usually not that long or frequent. But come on you have to learn to take a Xanax and calm down a bit, the company is not you so don't take it so personal.
chrisc
Grafter
Posts: 688
Registered: 19-04-2007

usage limits, a thought

Sorry if you thought I was taking things personally or getting wound up Cheesy

I was only trying to point out when you signed up and when we stopped using the 'unlimited' word so that you can be sure about the product that you are subscribed to.
Ianwild
Grafter
Posts: 3,835
Registered: 05-04-2007

usage limits, a thought

He He - It is a touchy subject I guess for a few people - We are not trying to be defensive, but it's frustrating for us that people seem to think it's a greed factor on our part that we haven't been able to offer Unlimited connections since the days of 512k!

In answer to the original question, the reason for 128K is that it is the lowest speed we feel where people can still use their connections for the basics - Web Surfing, email, etc. At the same time, it reduces our cost exposure as far as possible. It's not a punishment at all - It's part of the product design! Also, bear in mind it's theoretically possible to download 40GB in a month at 128K...

Anyway, It's a shame that 'Unlimited' doesn't work for Broadband these days, especially when you consider the reasons why. The first thing we always say (I'm sure you know!) is that for the wholesale capacity alone, it costs an ISP over £1500 a month to provide a truely 'Unlimited' 8Mb/s connection (It's £210 Per Mbps per month*).

So, that's our exposure on 'Unlimited'. In many other markets in the world, 'Unlimited' works on the basis that so few people could possibly consume a significantly unprofitable level of the product that was hugely above an 'average'. Imagine if it were possible to consume £1500 worth of all you can eat Pizza or Public transport for your £20!

Broadband is different and where you end up with an 'Unlimited' Broadband product that is being used by a few people in the way described above, it can make the business thing loss making. Some may think it's their right to have Unlimited broadband and I'd love to agree, but the economics don't work properly... Ask yourself - Would you be prepared to pay £210 for a 1 Meg truely 'Unlimited' connection?*

* As it happens, there was a price cut today. The way BT have done it is complicated, but the overall amount spent with BT for a typical ISP will reduce by between 4% (If they absorb the new cessastion charge) and 10% (If they pass on the cost).

** You'll ask how other ISPs do Unlimited maybe - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/caps.htm is worth a read on that front!

Regards,

Ian
grimreality
Grafter
Posts: 74
Registered: 06-08-2007

usage limits, a thought

Yeah you are right it really is a touchy subject with a lot of people on either side of the fence getting up in arms.

What I really get a kick out of is the people who argue I have HSB with an 8Mbps connection but my downloading from torrentreactor (only used as an example) is only getting speeds like 5Kbps. Then they blame the provider rather than look at where they are getting the file or the amount of seeders the file has.

Do love to set people off though and get a little fire lit under people to start a proper discussion without the corporate defence stance which only cause the people on the other side to feel like they are being pushed and bullied.
winnipeg1823
Grafter
Posts: 156
Registered: 08-08-2007

usage limits, a thought

Quote
Has any work been done around this, i.e. how many people who have had restrictions placed on them have actually moved products. If the figure is low, then the restrictions would not appear to be working in a way plusnet thought they would do, and perhaps need a little tweaking!!

HuhHuh
chrisc
Grafter
Posts: 688
Registered: 19-04-2007

usage limits, a thought

TBH I don't have any exact figures on this but can confirm that a lot of people do upgrade to a different package. This is not normally the first time they go over the usage limit but certainly if it happens 2 or 3 months in a row then more customers upgrade than those who don't.
grimreality
Grafter
Posts: 74
Registered: 06-08-2007

usage limits, a thought

OK, lets say for argument sake I have Premier One what is above that other than Business which is going to cost £35+VAT(gov't have to get thier paws in).
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 17,624
Thanks: 610
Fixes: 158
Registered: 05-04-2007

usage limits, a thought

BBYW option 4 has a higher allowance than Premier, you can see this here
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Help Team