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disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

doomreaper
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: 07-09-2007

disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

It has been 2weeks and four days since i reported that i could not access any internet through my adsl line. At first i got teh standard 'its your equipment' but i had allready thougt of that and had a second router , a seperate adsl modem and tested these myself, to double check i even swopped computers and euipemt around via a 2nd adsl line at my home. indeed all pointed to a line fault or fault outside my control.
After 2weeks i asked that i should get some kind of reduction for not being able to access the net at all, after all i am renting. The answer a swift we dont guarantee access, therefor no reduction !
My reaction, i dont pay a full months rental when i havnt had access for 2 weeks 3 days and indeed still do not have access or even any idea when i will have access. Also i have asked that my service be stopped forthwith and the line closed, the code to be given to me so i can go elsewhere when i chose.
I am indeed a very unhappy customer.
If Force 9 had said sorry about the delay getting your line up and heres a little discount i may have stayed , but this - this just isnt teh force9 i have dealt with via 56k and adsl with for over 10 years in total.
Bye Bye .
15 REPLIES
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disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

Hello doomreaper

Yes! I can understand your frustration even anger at the situation. And I personally agree that if you havent had internet access for 2 whole weeks then that is extremely poor and that F9 and BT should have tried harder to help you sort this out more quickly. Yes! if your a new ADSL Customer then thats a very poor start I agree.

**Some things to know about ( and this doesnt excuse either F9 nor BT). When users have a problem with their broadband service you need to let F9 customer support know ASAP!! usually by phone or by openning a support ticket. Normally F9 will ask you a series of questions especially if its a new problem, this is done as part of a troubleshooting process. If F9 support could provide a fix then they normally would, if the questions are answered and the problem is identified as a line problem its then normally passed onto the BT faults dept. Sadly this whole process between F9 and BT can be slow by itself and even when the problem is accepted by BT faults it can take a further length of time (delay) for BT to sort it out. This is the process that ALL IPS users face because we are all dependant ultimately on BT infrastructure, pipes, lines,exchanges, street cabs,etc,etc.

**Sadly, and BT wouldnt admitt this but if your a non BT ISP customer (if your internet providor iSNT BTYahoo or BTOpenworld) i.e. a F9 Plusnet customer then our faults get a lower priority than BT's own ISP customers.

**Your wrong the service that F9 Plusnet provide ISNT a form of rental, its actually a contract between the ISP & customer and it takes the form of a subscription service which is technically different. No! BT or F9 rarely if ever give refunds for loss of service in these kinds of cases (only in very very rare cases), only commercial internet based services or business's have whats called a service level agreement (SLA) only where there is a formal SLA would compensation be paid out to the customer for down time or loss of service as per that formal agreement.

**I guess it depends upon your expectation/s as a customer and what you think you should be getting and what you feel is an acceptable level of treatement (customer service) and product ie. braodband. Yes! if your not happy and you dont feel the customer service has come upto standard I can fully appreciate why you want to leave plusnet.

Ivan
doomreaper
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: 07-09-2007

disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

ok, firstly force9 were informed right at teh very beginning. i went through there tests and also did as i said in swopping equipment round etc.
I am on a month by month contract as they put it.
I today recieved a email saying that they reported it to BT the same day i contacted them, that BT somehow deleted teh report then because my line is supossedly being updated they couldnt take another error report, pity it took a long time for me to be informed.
Force 9 may not guarantee a service to its public payers, what im saying is they should , this could then be claimed back from say BT, maybe then lines would be properly taken care of. I know if only iot was an ideal world.
However i, i have stated i am leaveing Force9 after many years (over 10 in total). so i guess they have no reason to even try to be sypathetic in my case. Bad rep - yep
recomend to others? not any more.
All for lack of customer care.
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disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

I have said it before (about 2 years ago at the time I had connectivity problems) and will happily say it again, and this applies to any ISP not just F9.

Even if an ISP has no SLA with its end user base, I fail to see how any ISP can operate a quality service to a customer without and SLA or at least OLA in place with BT....oh and it doesnt change if you have a business account either you still get no SLA... well unless you get a leased line from BT.

The fact BT has a monopoly means ISP's have no choice but to bow to them when it comes to things like ADSL and until LLU hits every excange or alternative broadband is available, it'll stay that way.

BT dont offer an SLA because they can afford not to, and know they will still get the custom of the ISPs because there is no real alternative. The government should have a regulatory body with enough teeth to force BT to improve things because at the moment market forces alone wont make them because in 90% of the country there is no competition...

:-(
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disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

Hi blanie,

Yes! agree totally with your comments on BT, and I will say this yet again BT are infact holding back the advance of broadband services in the UK precisley because they have a monopoly.

**In my experience of working in the IT industry is that BT wont offer SLA's to most companies unless of a certain size (scale). I would expect ISP's do fall into that catagory though and so I would expect F9 Plusnet to have SLA in place with BT because of the size & number of central 622MB pipes.

**Single internet connections or single BT phone line customers SLA's dont make me laugh!! BT wouldnt give you the time of day. To the likes of BT we are just grains of sand on the beach, only if you own the entire beach would BT be bothered and may be not even then??

Ivan
doomreaper
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: 07-09-2007

disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

make that 3 weeks and no service .....
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disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

Hi,

Have you thought about approaching your local trading standards dept as they can tell you more about what you can do in this sort of situation. i.e. what you could do too get it sorted out, what your consumer rights are as paying customer,etc. If your paying for a service and its NOT being provided then I think you do have recourse to take action that you see as approariate. I'm sure trading standards could advise on how to proceed. Also I think you need to try and contact F9 & BT (dont leave things upto them sounds like you need to be more on both of their cases inorder to push things forwards and get the service back and running).

Ivan
Frogger
Grafter
Posts: 113
Registered: 19-09-2007

disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

Hi doomreaper
You have my greatest sympathy, I was without broadband for 15 weeks after 18 months good service !
Regardless of wether you are renting or subscribing to a service, it is very wrong for F9 to refuse to compensate you. You are paying for something that they are incapable of suppling.
My problem was BT based, however after I completed all the tests, F9 passed it to BT. However initially, BT absolutely refused to talk to me as my contract was with F9. Initially BT thought the fault was on the line, but had not any spare pairs to swap it , they indicated they would do no more, as my phone still worked. F9 complained to BT and I had frequent visits by engineers who did the same tests and came to the same conclusion.
I would recommend you persevere, if BT don't fix on first visit, then get F9 to escalate to BT High Level complaints, then they will retry for a repair.
If you do need to complain to BT, do so via the number on the back of your phone bill, make it clear you need to raise an issue about a non BT ISP service and that it is about BT Wholesale repair, otherwise they will keep connecting you to BTYahoo helpdesk. They are very bad at getting back to you however. ALWAYS keep F9 advised of any communication you have with BT, it helps them.
After BT Wholesale special faults got involved, it took BT a day to prove the fault was NOT on my line but in the exchange, and fixed it straight away.
Because of the extremely long outage, I got partial compensation from F9 as 'gesture of goodwill', and an apology from BT.
You can get advice on complaining about these matters from Ofcom, but they will not get involved in individual cases untill it has gone on for a lot longer than your case and you have evidence of escalations to management with no solution. Trading standards will also advise on 'reasonable terms and conditions', but my main object was to get service restored, as I was so frustrated with BT abusing their Market Domination in my area., and the resulatant lack of responsiveness.
In the situation I believed F9 did act reasonably but were hindered by BT's lack of responsiveness. The sooner that ISPs can provide service without being tied to BT's copper in the local loop the better.
Hope that helps, for information. I also hope you get resolved soon, BT do fix most problems on first visit, but they did admit to me that they are under resourced with correctly skilled people with the current volume of work.
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disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

doomreaper can no longer reply as force9 have made it so that to answer thier notices or post anything he has to pay the subscription, they have even said please confirm your cancelation via the portal , but to do so means he would have to give them payment first!.
He is still unable to access and force9 said they reported the fault, that bt removed the report, and when they went to re-report it they couldnt as bt said the line was being upgraded.. well if that is true they should have pused , as even now he cannot access via his own line, and if the line was being upgraded 6 weeks back surley it dosnt take this long !!
someone somewhere is not giveing the full true facts are they!
still he has cancelled his subscription and after 10 years via dial up and broadband feels he has been treated with contempt ,
doomreaper
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: 07-09-2007

disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

wayhay , i get my BB cut from today as i ahvnt paid my account,Though to be fair i havnt, also i would have dearly loved to reply to there emails asking how i wished to proceed, only one problem, in order to reply i was to give them payment details BEFORE i could reply,, no way , i wanted to discuss the situation and sort it out not pay then talk ...
A long time ago i joined Force9 via dial up , over ten years to be precise, it was good , rearely went down, if it did you got quick info and friendly customer support. Two years ago i joined AOL via BB, but i kept my Force9 dial up as secure backu, eventually i took the plunge and joined force9 for my BB also. Sorry to say i find the customer support on this level disapointing. And to say they dont guarantee you have access via bb at any time is not good, a day , maybe three or even a week of downtiem ok , but it was 5 weeks with no conection, and the excuses of they contated BT and BT lost teh reports etc , not my problem, i rent a line from them, so if its down that long a good customer relation would have some sort of remitance for teh customer in place, not a YOU pay we dont care routine.
doomreaper
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: 07-09-2007

disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

Ok, trading standards seem to be of teh opinion that under the sale and supply of goods act 1982, force9 are in breech of any contract to supply my access to the internet and should have offered some compense as a gesture of good will if nothing else. I shall now write to the M.D. and ask his opinion.
doomreaper
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: 07-09-2007

disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

Ok despite trading standards stateing that force9 are wrong and should have at least offeredd some sort of deduction/rebate, Customer center still simply say NO WE CANT.
but hey even better , i can make payment and then find out if my line is working !!
hold on, i pay for 6 weeks i havnt had despite disputing your right to that money , then i may or may not have access anyway ??
Who do you think i am Huh some fool Huh
OK , well the letter is allready on it way to your M.D.
enjoy becuase you have made me feel you truley dont give a dam about your customers , only the money you can gleem from them at any cost .
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disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

Hi doomreaper

AAAhhh!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot believe these people sometimes, they certainly know how to rub salt into the wound dont they and how to further alianate there customers quick as a flash. For Pete's sakes what are they doingHuh Looks like they dont know themselves?

**Durrr!!! Shockedops: :lol: Shockedops: :lol: Evil sincere sympathies too you!!

Ivan
JonathanW
Grafter
Posts: 2,648
Registered: 02-10-2007

disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

Hi,

I'd just like to clear up one thing with regards to billing when you have a fault. Even though there might be a fault with the BT connection, BT Wholesale still charge us for this, and as such we have to pass that onto the customer. However, once the fault has been fixed, we can then look into whether or not it is possible to do something with regards to the billing issue itself. Though this depends greatly on what the fault was.
doomreaper
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: 07-09-2007

disatifaction- over 2 weeks and no service

Ok , as i understand it , i am being offered and accepting a months provision inlue , so i find this acceptable and am happy with this.
Though to be fair , it shouldnt have taken this amount of effort on anyones part to get to this point, ithas been resolved .
I shall put the whole experience down to a 'one off' Smiley