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bye bye trafic managment

Slick
Grafter
Posts: 123
Registered: 01-08-2007

bye bye trafic managment

just like the topic says although it wont explain how to but point you in the rite direction Cool Cool Cool

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4758636.stm
27 REPLIES
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bye bye trafic managment

So much bad press at the min for PN. This is not good, more fuel for the Pipex drones to start marching on Sheffield
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bye bye trafic managment

lol, nice one!
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bye bye trafic managment

nice find!
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bye bye trafic managment

Can't help wondering though if lots of people are happily using encrypted P2P what is going to happen when contention eventually kicks in.

Are we going to be seeing the very same people sitting around at the moment with smug expressions on their faces patting each other on the back saying "Ha Ha we beat the system" going to suddenly start compalining that ISP's are not buying more pipes only so they can fill them up again.

Interesting times ahead I feel.
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bye bye trafic managment

Funny that .Is that not exactly whats happening now ,Complaints about slow downloads on P2P are rife ,Have even seen the suggestion that more pipes are needed so we can go faster .NO matter if it's Plus net or F2S or Madasafish or any one of several others and probably more to come I for one cant see that happening well not unless all the heavy downloaders are prepared to pay anywhere over £200 a month .No matter which ISP they are on .
LiamM
Grafter
Posts: 5,636
Registered: 12-08-2007

bye bye trafic managment

Just to point out, encrypted P2P is quite easy to pick up on, not by DPI, but by the behavioiur of the traffic - i.e. making multiple connections to various endpoints - upload and download simultaneous to multiple endpoints. This is what easily distringuishes it from VPN or SSH traffic where only one connection would be made to a single endpoint.
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

bye bye trafic managment

You may think encrypting P2P will get around the traffic management. You are wrong because PN have changed the way they impose limits on the new products and now include ALL traffic in the 10GB/month daily allowance - previously they had a separate limit for P2P. Once you hit that figure with ANY data, your whole traffic except HTTP/email is speed limited during peak time, which includes encrypted P2P.

So while things such as encrypted P2P get around the limits initially, ISPs are catching on and changing their policies on how to limit it's use to catch the encrypted traffic.
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bye bye trafic managment

This is the article from the Newsnight programme spoken about again recently which was broadcast a few weeks back.

As Liam has said, it is not difficult to distinguish between use of encryption to try to 'hide' P2P traffic and use of encryption for singular end-to-end encryption paths. Unfortunately PlusNet do not make this distinction in much of their traffic management so legitimate uses of encryption have been known to suffer, I would expect those who use encryption on their P2P traffic to see it slow down as PlusNet tweak their systems and with more account-specific profiling the possibility of being told you are breaching the T&C's is a possibility.

Hey, now there's an idea, maybe I should run loads of encrypted P2P to get out of my contract Wink
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bye bye trafic managment

The problem with do multiple end point analysis on the Ellacoya's is that if you have hundereds of users all connecting at once maintaining enough state information on each user's connectivity is a serious overhead on the capacity of the router... though I'm sure it will be resolved quickly enough (Basically just through more memory and powerpc chips at it...)
passer
Grafter
Posts: 381
Registered: 06-04-2007

bye bye trafic managment

Several of you, including PlusNet, are still missing the point here. The analogy used in the article, of trains versus canals, is quite an appropriate one. If I could also include the parable of the law which made a man with a flag walk in front of the early automotive vehicles, to prevent them from frightening the horses, amongst other things. "We'll slow down this new-fangled invention in order to preserve the status quo" - we laugh about it now, just as we ourselves will be laughed at by those who succeed us.

The significant factor is that P2P is not going to go away, and it's not going to be defeated by ever more intricate and pseudo-sophisticated detection methods. If as much resource and investment was put into accommodating the takeover of the internet by P2P protocol as is directed at containing it, the inevitable resolution would be effected much more quickly.

In time, the web highway will become as integral as the roads. The comms industry should be putting more effort into collaboratively generating more infrastructure, rather than beating up the people who pay to use it , for....uhhh...using it.

They built more railway tracks.
They built more roads.
They will build more comms pipes.
The sun also rises.....

(with acknowledgement to an interesting post yesterday by Phearfactor in another thread)
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bye bye trafic managment

Quote
Just to point out, encrypted P2P is quite easy to pick up on, not by DPI, but by the behavioiur of the traffic


That is what I have thought for a while now, that alothough the contents may be hidden by encryption the actual behaviour as it transits the ISP's network would in actual fact make it stand out like a sore thumb.Which is why I have tended to find all this excitement of encrypting P2P data a little pointless from the ISP's point of view because they are going to be able to see what is going on (or take an educated guess).

Just as a matter of my own curiosity one of my pieces of Video conferencing software does use P2P and occasionally we do sent encrypted files across it, but as it goes from a single port to another single port I am correct in assuming that it will not raise any eyebrows in that it would be accepted as "normal" encrypted traffic?
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bye bye trafic managment

Quote

They built more railway tracks.
They built more roads.


Then they increase the rail fares, and car tax to pay for it, so would you prefer that Plusnet raise their prices to a more realistic level to enable others to..... as you say " for....uhhh...using it"

I think it boils down to people wanting the earth but not willing to pay for it. Otherwise why are they with such a cheap ISP?
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bye bye trafic managment

Wouldn't the idea of the encryption in the P2P traffic be to stop people working out what the data actually was rather than what style of traffic it is, and as such be to stop people sniffing their packets and getting all the data out, as surely it would only transmit public keys and such, then it is decrypted against the private key and shouldn't be detected, I would have thought that would the major use for encryption.... maybe I am wrong.
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bye bye trafic managment

Yep, encryption can be used to hide the content of the messages but traffic analysis can still be used to reveal the origin and end points and from that information you can still deduce alot - just as a burst in encrypted radio traffic between military units can reveal alot even if you don't know what was said.