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Why can't PN tell us properly about the problems with BT?

N/A

Why can't PN tell us properly about the problems with BT?

Hello All

I have just been through the process of having my line investigated for a fault. If they had told me at the start that BT are having the problems with long lines and SNR variation it would have saved them the bother of fault checking my line. I want someone from PN to contact me to discuss why they couldn't tell me this about the problem with long lines and Max.?? Its jolly irritating

Nick


Quote
XXXXXXXX CSC Agent 5:03pm, Wednesday 17th May 2006

Broadband Fault Checker - Initial checks [ Completed ]

All initial checks have been completed without finding any problems. Detailed checks must now be completed. Please ensure that all questions are completed within 48 hours, otherwise this Question will be automatically closed with no fault reported

XXXXXXXX CSC Agent 5:06pm, Wednesday 17th May 2006

Broadband Fault Checker - Detailed checks [ Completed ]

All questions have been completed by the user.
Your comment 8:59pm, Wednesday 17th May 2006

I've been trying to do the fault check which popped up for me to complete. It wouldn't work because of a fault your end (thats what it said) and i can't find the link again. Could you help?
Also can you log the number of times I connect to your servers?

Nick Brown
Your comment 2:29pm, Thursday 18th May 2006

Between 9am and 2pm my internet connection fell over 31 times. And i can't do the fault checker.

Nick Brown
XXXXXXXX CSC Service Delivery Management 2:38pm, Tuesday 23rd May 2006

Dear Customer,

Please accept our apologies for the delay in responding to your query. I will now move your query to the correct team to be actioned. We will complete detailed diagnostics on your line with further updates expected in the next 72 hours.


Regards,
XXXXXXXX

To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html
Your comment 10:32am, Wednesday 24th May 2006

Hi Is my problem not related with BT and the stable rate and all that??
XXXXXXXX CSC Agent 3:50pm, Friday 26th May 2006

Username Number Latest Earliest
START DULVERTON12@PLUSDSL.NET 1 26/05/2006 15:19:09 26/05/2006 15:19:09
LOGON DULVERTON12@PLUSDSL.NET 2 26/05/2006 15:19:03 26/05/2006 14:51:04
WORKED DULVERTON12@PLUSDSL.NET 2 26/05/2006 14:50:58 26/05/2006 11:59:25
Determine Algorithm Branch Analysis
Not Service Selection Barring.
xDSL Status Check Analysis
OK.
Circuit Information
Circuit In Sync

Upstream xDSL Link Info
Loop Loss 28 dB
Cell Count 1576438906

Downstream xDSL Link Info
Loop Loss 49 dB
Cell Count 74294752
DSL MAX
Downstream Line Rate 4544
Downstream Line Rate Timestamp 24/05/2006 23:42:48

Maximum Stable Rate Re-set (Y/N) N
Profile Change Time 01/01/1111 00:00:00
Maximum Stable Rate 2272

Fault Threshold Rate 1590
Interleaved Aut

Regards,
XXXXXXXX

To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html
XXXXXXXX CSC Agent 3:56pm, Friday 26th May 2006

Dear Mr Brown,
We have checked your line and no fault can be found with your service therefore I am passing the fault back to you for further checking and testing at your end.


The first thing you need to do is go around your premises, unplug all telephony equipment (including sky boxes or anything which uses the phone line). Once everything is unplugged from your line take your ADSL equipment directly to your BT master socket and try to connect using only your ADSL Modem/Router and a standard ADSL Microfilter.



If the problem is solved :



If the issue stops after trying the above. Something will have been causing the issue at your end. One by one plug everything back in ensuring filters are attached to the end of every extension or phone socket (dont double filter as this will cause intermittent / loss of sync). Please note if the fault is with equipment/extensions at your end it is your responsibility to solve the problem.



If the problem still exists :



If you still have an issue with your connection and your equipment is plugged directly into the BT master socket. Try changing the microfilter and modem (if possible) also check for any sources of RF interference (especially if the fault seems to happen when it gets dark or if a certain electrical devices are on at the time of the fault).



On the software side check to make sure all firmware is up to date and you are running the latest version of drivers for your modem. Go and research your hardware, A lot of equipment on the market can actually cause intermittent sync and you may find a fix for it.



If after trying all of the above and you are at a loss we can escalate this to BT however we need to advise that if BT find no fault you may be charged £45.00 + VAT

Regards,
XXXXXXXX

To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html
Your comment 1:38pm, Saturday 27th May 2006

The constant disconnections have reduced to 1 or so every couple of hours. Through my own research I have found that the disconnections issue on long lines is quite a common problem, which is down to BT and the fluctuating SNR of my line. I am exceedingly dissappointed that plus net have not made people and me aware of this because If you had done so I wouldn't needed to have raised the fault in the first place and saved us all time. I would like to contacted by phone to discuss this issue.

Regards Nicholas Brown
7 REPLIES
N/A

Why can't PN tell us properly about the problems with BT?

Agreed, I'm in exactly the same boat, with the same waffle from PN
N/A

Why can't PN tell us properly about the problems with BT?

Me too
Cry
N/A

Why can't PN tell us properly about the problems with BT?

I've been getting most of my information from other ISP's forums.
Those that most of the people who left because they couldn't get Max early enough for them, they now now why their Max is causing so much trouble, whereas Plus seems to just check using the standard BT fault checker.

There is a known issue with lines being dropped and resyncing constantly, but I don't think I should give the link I found because it was on a competitor's forum.

Try googling and you should find plenty of information in a number of forums, plus official announcements by ISPs. That's how I found that it is BTs problem to a large extent, and that providing you can get at least 400kb/s BT sees your 'up to 8 mb' line as fine. Some ISPs are now advertising max at a speed that varies between 400 kb/s and 7500 kb/s with no guarantee of which end of the scale you'll be stuck on.

If it were cheaper here I'd be tempted to follow what many are doing in South Africa, although there the problems are caused by storms. Many use 3g phones for their broadband.

Now that Plus is including a talk package, maybe they could offer a reasonable priced 3g broadband, with our phones connected to our computers?
passer
Grafter
Posts: 381
Registered: 06-04-2007

Why can't PN tell us properly about the problems with BT?

The DSLMax rollout has exposed various weaknesses in the BT setup which they should have anticipated, and to such an extent that they have effectively halted the rollout. Meanwhile, the ISPs have to take the flak, and deal with problems using the same methodology and fault-checker they always have. They can't just say to you up front: "Well, it could be one of those long-line problems which we're seeing a lot of lately - fancy risking a £50 charge if it isn't?", because you'd go berserk, and say they should have checked everything else before exposing you to the expense!

To be fair, the long-line problem has always been there, not just since DSLMax, and it's purely a BT issue. PlusNet have no idea how long your line is, and even if they did, only BT can make any sort of decision as to what speed of service it can support. No ISP can over-rule their decision.

When you report a sync problem, PlusNet can only go through all the known potential causes sequentially. Firstly they will eliminate all the stuff that you and they have control over, and only then will they call out BT to check their end, because BT charge for that service, and if their equipment turns out to be problem-free, they will recoup their costs.

If they find that there IS a fault, with a wire, or a connection, or a green box, or at an exchange, then they will bear the cost themselves. If they find a fault with your equipment, they will charge you for identifying it. All very reasonable really.
N/A

Why can't PN tell us properly about the problems with BT?

But why can't PN hold up there hands and say "yes we know that there is a problem. Ok its not down to us and all that can be done at present is wait for BT to sort it out".. really what is so hard with that?
N/A

Why can't PN tell us properly about the problems with BT?

Quote
They can't just say to you up front: "Well, it could be one of those long-line problems which we're seeing a lot of lately - fancy risking a £50 charge if it isn't?", because you'd go berserk, and say they should have checked everything else before exposing you to the expense!

To be fair, the long-line problem has always been there, not just since DSLMax, and it's purely a BT issue. PlusNet have no idea how long your line is, and even if they did, only BT can make any sort of decision as to what speed of service it can support. No ISP can over-rule their decision.



Nobody can be sure exactly how long their line is other than BT, it's possible to live next to your exchange but have your line go the long way to it.
But some people can say that it is a long line problem.

I live 2.8 km from my exchange and it's the only exchange in the area. I had big problems with my line and BT wouldn't do anything about it because it was fine for phone and fax, but I couldn't get broadband because the line was too long and noisy.
So I got myself ISDN for a year and BT were very apologetic that they had to change my phone number because my old one was on a box with no spare capacity.
Broadband became available for people on ISDN, I did a check and found I could get it. I had to have an engineer visit to remove the ISDN which I never really wanted, but was the only way to get dial-up speeds over 28 kb/s. A single ISDN line gave me top speed for that, and I've been able to get broadband up to 1000 kb/s before Max. Now I can actually get 2 mb/s on max, so I'm happy about that.

But I know that my fluctuations in speed and disconnects are caused by the long line. But it can't be too bad because interleaving hasn't been turned on. Still, I should be able to get speeds of at least 3 mb/s according to my exchange guide, and my modem always syncs over 3000, but won't stay high enough all the time for my stable rate to be changed.. unless the BRAs problem is back, which I heard it was.

I'd like more information about long lines. Does anyone have a good link?
passer
Grafter
Posts: 381
Registered: 06-04-2007

Why can't PN tell us properly about the problems with BT?

The following link gives some decent information about the product, and a fair description of the long line limitations:

http://www.farina1.com/bookmark/000004/2005/02/27/00020260.HTM