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Usenet speeds (premier)

crimsone
Grafter
Posts: 317
Registered: 15-08-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

I just wanted to know - is anybody else seeing persistantly slow usenet speeds in the order of 20-30 KB/s average, both on and off peak, and seeing a similar persistant issue with torrent downloads too? Symptoms seem to include very rare and incredibly brief "blips" in speed up to the realms of something you could just about cope waiting for (a very rare rise in speed up to about 100-150 KBs lasting a few measly seconds appears to be the norm for me), followed by a near instantaneous drop back down to speeds you might expect from a 128k dial-up modem.

For the record, I am experiencing them (which is why I'm posting). I had it before the extra pipe segments were lit, and I continue to have it. I have a great line - fast and stable, and have had for a fair time (448/7616). Background traffic from and to my computer is negligable.

I'd be particularly interested to hear from anybody using Giganews. Perhaps you could take a look at this page and see if the reverse traceroute for your connection has the same issues?

In case anybody has any clue as to what the issue might be (and given I have the same issue with both usenet and torrents, I wouldn't personally be very suprised if this does turn out to be something to do with ellacoya or line profiling (whether an intended or unintended consequence)), here is the reverse trace from the link above, and a forward trace from my computer...

Quote
news.giganews.com
1 216.196.98.6 (216.196.98.6) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
2 g3-16.gw2.dca.giganews.com (216.196.96.61) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
3 ge3-4.fr3.iad.llnw.net (69.28.156.173) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
4 tge9-3.fr3.lga.llnw.net (69.28.171.15Cool 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms
5 ge1-2.fr3.lon.llnw.net (69.28.171.126) 76 ms 78 ms 78 ms
6 lonap-gw2.plus.net (193.203.5.155) 76 ms 163 ms 77 ms
7 ge0-0-0-22.ptn-gw1.plus.net (212.159.4.1) 76 ms 77 ms 77 ms
8 gi1-0-103.ptn-ag1.plus.net (84.92.3.19) 77 ms 77 ms 77 ms
9 crimsone.plus.com (84.92.163.119) 1178 ms 710 ms 799 ms


news-europe.giganews.com
1 216-196-110-3.ams.giganews.com (216.196.110.3) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
2 216-196-108-122.ams.giganews.com (216.196.108.122) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
3 10ge-3-0-0.ams22.ip.tiscali.net (213.200.75.113) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
4 so-5-1-0.lon11.ip.tiscali.net (213.200.81.146) 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms
5 plusnet-gw.ip.tiscali.net (213.200.78.70) 7 ms 8 ms 6 ms
6 ge1-0-0-23.ptn-gw1.plus.net (212.159.4.17) 10 ms 35 ms 7 ms
7 gi1-0-103.ptn-ag1.plus.net (84.92.3.19) 11 ms 8 ms 9 ms
8 crimsone.plus.com (84.92.163.119) 721 ms 791 ms 705 ms


Incidentally, their "usenet download tester", based on a test size of 3131 KB, suggests I can expect speeds of 5863 Kbps - in excess of the 20 KBs I actually see.

Quote
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Rhi>tracert news.giganews.com

Tracing route to news.giganews.com [216.196.109.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 36 ms 49 ms 39 ms lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag1.plus.net [195.166.128.123]
2 39 ms 39 ms 39 ms ge0-0-0-103.ptn-gw1.plus.net [84.92.3.17]
3 38 ms 39 ms 39 ms vl23.thn-gw1.plus.net [212.159.4.19]
4 37 ms 39 ms 49 ms ge2-2.fr1.lon.llnw.net [193.203.5.68]
5 48 ms 49 ms 49 ms tge7-2.fr3.ams.llnw.net [69.28.171.93]
6 48 ms 49 ms 49 ms ve5.fr4.ams.llnw.net [69.28.172.114]
7 269 ms 239 ms 259 ms giganews.ve212.fr1.ams.llnw.net [87.248.196.14]

8 * 48 ms * 216-196-108-122.ams.giganews.com [216.196.108.12
2]
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 856 ms 719 ms * news-60.ams.giganews.com [216.196.109.131]
14 839 ms * 840 ms news-60.ams.giganews.com [216.196.109.131]

Trace complete.

C:\Documents and Settings\Rhi>tracert news-europe.giganews.com

Tracing route to news-europe.giganews.com [216.196.109.144]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 35 ms 39 ms 49 ms lo0-plusnet.ptn-ag1.plus.net [195.166.128.123]
2 41 ms 39 ms 39 ms ge0-0-0-103.ptn-gw2.plus.net [84.92.3.18]
3 38 ms 39 ms 39 ms vl22.thn-gw1.plus.net [212.159.4.3]
4 42 ms 49 ms 49 ms ge2-2.fr1.lon.llnw.net [193.203.5.68]
5 47 ms 48 ms 50 ms tge7-2.fr3.ams.llnw.net [69.28.171.93]
6 48 ms 49 ms 49 ms ve5.fr4.ams.llnw.net [69.28.172.114]
7 49 ms 49 ms 1159 ms giganews.ve210.fr1.ams.llnw.net [87.248.196.6]
8 * 43 ms * 216-196-108-122.ams.giganews.com [216.196.108.12
2]
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * 893 ms * news-europe.giganews.com [216.196.109.144]
14 878 ms 889 ms 899 ms news-europe.giganews.com [216.196.109.144]

Trace complete.

C:\Documents and Settings\Rhi>


:?
176 REPLIES
paulgul
Rising Star
Posts: 605
Fixes: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Usenet speeds (premier)

Quote
I wouldn't personally be very suprised if this does turn out to be something to do with ellacoya or line profiling (whether an intended or unintended consequence))

:?


Your probably right - no problems with Giganews on PAYG

Paul
crimsone
Grafter
Posts: 317
Registered: 15-08-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

Bizarre! I've had this problem for a good while now (going on for months rather than weeks), and no more than 20 minutes after posting, my usenet speeds are all over the place - settling mainly for around the 70-150 KBs mark right at this moment, but there was a jump to 750 KBs for just under a minute (which is actually the approximate limit of my line under good circumstances - I've not seen that at any time of day or night for quite at least 3 or 4 months now).

Even so, with the speed jumping around as it is, it only serves to tell me that somewhere along the way, there's something wrong (and that it isn't my phone line!)
bobbygeorge
Grafter
Posts: 373
Registered: 30-07-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

yup,

both Usenet and P2P are terrible on premier at the moment

on peak/ off peak it doesn't matter ...

speeds below 20 KB/s at all times.

Also, at exactly 12pm midday everyday a switch seems to be pulled & all P2P/Usenet speeds are suddenly reduced in an instant.

Plusnet seem to be unaware of this phenomenon despite it being mentioned previously in these forums.

:roll:
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

Usenet speeds certainly off peak should be better than that. Overnight there's plenty of bandwidth available so there shouldb't be any prolem getting near enough max speeds. I'd expect slower speeds at peak time, but even now at nearly 5pm there's about 200Mbps of usenet on the network which is actually higher than it was around midday.

The best thing to do is to try it in the early hours and see what speeds you get then as there's plenty of spare capacity, also ensure that you don't have anything uploading at the same time, if you are using something like BitTorrent as well then if that's using your upload bandwidth then it will reduce the bandwidth available for ack packets and slow the downloads down.

I'd suggest to run the following as well and report the results back


www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk
www.dslreports.com/tweaks
Plusnet Alumni (retired) _CN_
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 385
Registered: 11-06-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

I justed tried with Easynews and right now I got my full line speed, approx 4.5Mbps, using a Premier Option 1 profile
bobbygeorge
Grafter
Posts: 373
Registered: 30-07-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

Hi Dave,

Can you look into the issue of the 12pm (noon) speed drop issue. James was looking into this yesterday, not sure what he found.

I was downloading a torrent at over 300 KB/s and uploading at 40 KB/s. Then suddenly at exactly midday ( 12pm ) as per my activity log graphs (I run 2 of these) the speed drops to below 20 KB/s in an instant, then just remains there for the remainder of the day. Uploads also drop suddenly to below 20 KB/s.

This is a regular occurance now, seems to be a traffic management issue.

very annoying to be throttled in such an obvious way, have tried different DNS servers & gateways but the problem remains.
crimsone
Grafter
Posts: 317
Registered: 15-08-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

Just performed the above tests...

dslreports tweak test (yes, I know I haven't tweaked my RWIN and MTU values)

The broadbandmax.co.uk test results were 6281 kbps down and 387 kbps up.
crimsone
Grafter
Posts: 317
Registered: 15-08-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

Further to the above, and having seen the speeds fluctuating crazily for a short while earlier, I decided after leaving it a while, that I would try another Usenet download and see what happened.

I used the Newsleecher client because of it's handy little graph in the bottom left corner.

The download was 361.8 MB in size, and was started (by my computers time) at 17:58. To compare with the forum, should anybody wish to check any of PN's network logs, my computers time was 18:26 at the time the submit button was pressed for this post.

The graph is 10 minutes long, and the dotted white line across it represents a speed of 799 KB/s (bytes, not bits - a little more than my connection can take under perfect conditions - I didn't want it obscuring any peaks in the graph Tongue ). After 10 minutes, there was 213.5 MB remaining on the download.

When downloading at line speed, the time remaining (according to Newsleecher) was something like 5 minutes just before the speed dropped. After the speed dropped, it was over two hours, which hopefully explains in obvious terms why such low speeds are so infuriating when it's known that you should easily be getting more.

Please note the "flatline" after the drop in speed - occuring about 3 minutes into the download. I'm sure that anybody looking at it will very much note how much it seems like a "flick of a switch", particularly so given that (perhaps coincidentally, or perhaps not so) it happend right on the hour. (as the divisions of the graph show.)

The graph starts marginally before the download does. Note also that it's usually slow speeds all the way in my experience with the issue. The linespeed download it starts with was a much appreciated suprise!



In the interests of an accurate account though, the "flatline" lasted until 18:14, at which time the download returned to full line speed for a total of 4 - 5 minutes, reaching the end of the download.

With a more personal tone, this may have been the fastest full download I've made in 4 months on either usenet or bittorrent, but given the history of the problem, I can only consider that the graph demonstrates that the problem still exists and still needs fixing.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

Not quite sure I understand what you're saying here, if I understand correctly then yur usenet speeds were nearly 800KB/s for 10 minutes, then 28KB/s for 4 minutes then back up to 800KB/s?. The 4 minutes is a lot odd, but could be down to all kinds of things.
crimsone
Grafter
Posts: 317
Registered: 15-08-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

no, the graph posted is 10 minutes long. The divisions on the graph show full linespeed for 3 minutes, followed by a flat 28KB for the rest of the 10 mins shown.

The flatline at 28KB lasted 13-14 mins, before returning to linespeed for a further 4-5 minutes. The download completed at about 18:19

I've called it a "flatline" because it's just that - sudden, and flat - like the flick of a switch suddenly took all the life out of the connection. The return to full linespeed afterwards was equally sudden.

Were this an issue with my line, my exchange, or my computer, I very much doubt that long, flat line on the graph would be quite so sudden or quite so flat. It is, however, a line that I'm quite used to seeing - it's the linespeed on either side of the download that's out of the ordinary I'm afraid. Sad

However, the suprising speed with which the download started and ended does go to show that there's nothing wrong with my line (or my computer for that matter, given that nothing happened while downloading at all, let alone anything that would create a restriction at 28KB like that.)
amjrobson
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: 02-09-2007

Usenet speeds (premier)

I for one think that there is something very strange happening with peak usenet downloads at the moment. I have made various posts over the last 2 weeks saying that in the evening I am getting at the most 20KB/s download for 3 days running it would not budge past 1KB/s then hits off peak and it flys.

I have also raise a ticket which I was told this is what I would expect. I have had one evening where it behaved as I would expect very peaky and troughy 20KB/s up to 350 this is what I would expect.

I think that there is some unbalance somewhere or PN are on purposly traffic shaping so users cannot get more than 20/KBS peak download. I am aware of many other broadband services that dont seem to have this constraint so why does PN.

If it is because of the ammount of peak usage then all I can say it over the last 2-3 weeks the amount of total network peak usage must have gone up a lot as before 2-3 weeks ago I used to hit full download rate during peak even if it did go up and down quite a but.

I mean during this week I couldnt get it to go over 1KB/s that isnt a broadband service. I was thinking of using dial up for a minute to see if it was any better.
N/A

Usenet speeds (premier)

Im downloading at the mo, and it's woeful. I ran a speed test and my line is running at 4500kbps, so my Usenet speeds should be very good, but getting consistently about 30kbps.

I'm nowhere near my limit either.
N/A

Usenet speeds (premier)

Check out my world then...

http://www.mat-lock.co.uk/pics/useless.JPG

1895kps Download from Namesco
217kbps Upload from Namesco

USENET speeds - 0.0k

:roll:

Plus.net once again are making me gauge my eyes out with a rusty spoon.
N/A

Usenet speeds (premier)

I have had a ticket open with PlusNet for a few weeks now.

PlusNet are sure they are not throttling my download speeds over Usenet.

As an eg:
I am currently (18/03/07 12:55hrs) downloading from Usenet (EasyNews) @ 20kbps.
I started a download from Microsoft (Win XP SP2) which was downloading at 500 kbps at the same time as my Usenet download.

However, they want me to try the BT Speedtester service, so that they can confirm the speed of the physical connection. All my Internet speeds zoom along quite fast all the time, except for Usenet stuff - all the time!