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Usenet Idea

N/A

Usenet Idea

ok i couldnt sleep last night at all so was rather bored and came up with what i believe to be a good idea to save usenet (atleast in the short term) until another solution, maybe external can be found.

We Delete all the binary groups. (I assume there is several thousand of them)
We then have a Vote for say 100~150 Binary Groups to be added.

even removing a lot of smaller groups. This should help the situation until something can be arranged.

It would also get past the problem about censorship i would think.

What are your oponions?

Cheers
Scott
17 REPLIES
Ianwild
Grafter
Posts: 3,835
Registered: 05-04-2007

Usenet Idea

I really like that in principle.

I'm concerned though about the legal implications it could have (Sort of in relation to the censorship point), because the way it looks if we just enable some groups is that we are condoning some downloads and not others.

I guess it depends on what the groups are to a point too.

I think it might be good if you progressed this idea, and could come to us with a list of groups, although I can make no promises one way or the other!

Regards,

Ian Wild
N/A

Usenet Idea

Yep, think its a good idea. I don't know whether only carrying certain binary groups would undermine the ISPs 'common carrier' protection if they were to contain copyright or obscene material though?
LiamM
Grafter
Posts: 5,636
Registered: 12-08-2007

Usenet Idea

If Plusnet only distribute certain groups, then they are seen as regulating which content gets through. If this includes obscene or illegal content, then the burden is now on Plusnet as they have actively selected that specific group to be available, rather than just letting everything through.
glloyd
Rising Star
Posts: 1,652
Thanks: 20
Fixes: 1
Registered: 06-04-2007

Usenet Idea

Surely it could also be classed as censorship if you don't carry any binary groups.

Quote
I really like that in principle.

I'm concerned though about the legal implications it could have (Sort of in relation to the censorship point), because the way it looks if we just enable some groups is that we are condoning some downloads and not others.

I guess it depends on what the groups are to a point too.

I think it might be good if you progressed this idea, and could come to us with a list of groups, although I can make no promises one way or the other!

Regards,

Ian Wild
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,653
Registered: 13-06-2007

Usenet Idea

the way i read it is that they aren't censoring binary groups by not having them served in PN as they are fully allowing users to use 3rd party services

I don't know if you saw what Dave wrote in another usenet discussion but he showed the top 20 binary groups which would show that it would be bad to only have the most popular groups due to their content

Quote


The top 20 groups from yesterday were

1 alt.binaries.boneless
2 alt.binaries.dvdrcore
3 alt.binaries.erotica.divx
4 alt.binaries.games.xbox
5 alt.binaries.dvd.erotica
6 alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.complete_cd
7 alt.binaries.multimedia
8 alt.binaries.dvd.erotica.classics
9 alt.binaries.movies.divx
10 alt.binaries.nl
11 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica
12 alt.binaries.x-files
13 alt.binaries.dvdr
14 alt.binaries.multimedia.startrek
15 alt.binaries.multimedia.erotica.lesbians
16 alt.binaries.pictures.nude
17 alt.binaries.erotica
18 alt.binaries.e-book.technical
19 alt.binaries.nospam.teenfem.nonude
20 alt.binaries.warez.pocketpc.gps


The problem of selecting certain groups is that it opens up a minefield of censorship questions. By selecting certain groups and saying these are OK but those aren't for whatever reason is kind of like saying "it's OK to download X, but not OK to download Y". This is an option that has been looked into, but as I say opens up a whole other can of worms to deal
jimmcginty
Grafter
Posts: 73
Registered: 31-07-2007

Usenet Idea

It's a nice idea but can't see us all agreeing on what
100 groups we include. Judging by how many people
actually fill in any poll people post I would think not.

Only two real options.

Pay +Net extra for the service, I would assume the data downloaded
would not be counted against the SUP or that would be taking the
wee wee. Obviously the hogs would need to be watched, me included.

or

Pay for your own service e.g. giganews, teranews,etc.

Jim
N/A

Usenet Idea

I suspect the recent growth in binary usenet feeds has been caused largely by the obscenly massive postings of hdtv episodes to hdtv groups and the new trend for posting dvd9's to the dvd groups.

I suspect if it were investigated, the massive growth could probably be attributed to a handful of the binary groups - with the majority of groups carrying on much as they always have, could this be investigated with a possible outcome of dropping any groups that are likely to be problematic ?

While I'm against the principle of dropping of any group from usenet as we all have different needs from the internet and usenet's philosphy has always been to meet the needs of all. If as a result of dropping a few massive groups, the rest of the service soldiers on, it can only be a good thing ?
JonathanW
Grafter
Posts: 2,648
Registered: 02-10-2007

Usenet Idea

We've already mentioned that dropping any one group over another opens up the question of censorship, and Dave's original post on this has been quoted above.

Where as dropping all binary groups is a matter of providing a text only service, as there is still plenty of questionable material in some of the text groups, depending on your particular point of view.
N/A

Usenet Idea

Look at that top 20 list and, ooh what a surprise, it's all porn or illegally copied media and software.

I'm sure there are people who do genuinely use USENET for non onanistic and piracy purposes, but come on, we're all grown ups and we know what the majority of people use it for.

I'm surprised how long the binaries have lasted on Plusnet. Loads of other ISPs have laughable newsgroup coverage. I think we've got away with it for quite a long time.

A top 100 list isn't a bad idea, but if we're being honest, how are we going to give one fetish precedence over another? Are scifi movies of more worth than comedies? Do you prefer techno to metal (nu, black, classic, death or just plain rubbish)?

If you do use USENET as a genuine resource, then please comment on it, otherwise the list will be hijacked by one legged, parrot carrying cutthroats and professional wrist exercisers. Decency would dictate that this top 100 list should contain only true hobbyist groups.

For everyone else, well, how about paying for something for a change. And for goodness sake, stop that incessant childish whinging - yes, isn't life awful.
N/A

Usenet Idea

The reason i figured you could get away with is is that different usenet providers have different amount of groups.

e.g astraweb only has around 33K groups compared to the 60K odd here.

The idea behind it was basically just to reduce the load for a few months to allow Plusnet to do something. Not all of us can pay for an external Usenet provider (Lack of CC for example.)

To get a fair vote ther'd need to be a fairly large number of people willing to vote which would be the main issue of doing this.

I dunno if we select 100 groups. Then leave the ability to request groups to be added funciton on the contact us to be left operational. Once the popular groups are there. if someone wants something they can still ask to have it added?

How many people are going to want a few thousand random small/medium groups that arnt currently used much and ar on the platform currently.
N/A

Usenet Idea

If anyone has any expansion on the idea let us know.

Also if we can tweak this idea so as plusnet will consider it then i can write a quick script to allow people to nominate groups. (i'd store ip addresses only so as to not allow it to be rigged but i would delete them all before the list was handed over. They would not ever be publicly viewable) < If you have any ideas/oponions on that do shout out Tongue
b2hbm
Grafter
Posts: 35
Registered: 31-07-2007

Usenet Idea

I like the idea, congrats for coming up with it.

Why not turn it around though, and rather than trying to select 100 groups, why not let people simply request one or two groups each ? I'd read somewhere that only 800 people use usenet, and I'm pretty sure that we can't all be using different groups.

That way it would mean that those actively moaning (myself included) get their shot at maintaining one or two groups they want. The chances are that others I want will also be selected by someone else and we might find less than 100 groups all in. If so, there's scope to have personal requests later on.

There is an issue with PN being seen to condone certain d/ls, but surely they can distance themselves simply by stating it's a customer request rather than a selection by PN.
N/A

Usenet Idea

Please bear in mind that the following is not meant to demean this discussion thread or anyone's ideas. I'm just bored and want to have a bit of a laugh...

The newsgroups that I would like to see included would be :

alt.why.is.kelly.clarkson.famous
alt.turn.off.that.computer.and.have.a.shave
microsoft.public.toilet
comp.c++.programmers.on.librium
alt.binaries.pi.to.lots.of.decimal.places
alt.binaries.pictures.for.the.blind
alt.mp3.rolf.harris
alt.fan.rolf.harris
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.rolf.harris
rec.stylophone

Plusnet take note!
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,878
Registered: 04-04-2007

Usenet Idea

Some amusing ones I'm sure but let's not let this thread degenerate into a list of 'niche' newsgroups, this is a family friendly forum afterall Smiley