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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 4
Location: sussex
Posted: 22 Feb 2005 06:50 pm Post subject: fuel to fire!

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hi

I realise that this a mighty looooong thread, and also point out I understand the reaons for the fair use policy. But I will post an e-mail I sent off to plusnet in april 2003 when I was looking for a new provider after the bt openworld fiasco

On 07/04/2003 @ 18:02 mr matthew kitchen wrote:
>hello could you please confirm that on the home install package that
>is £22,99 a month that you do not block any ports and also is there
>any bandwith restriction of number of hours usage per day?

======== PlusNet Reply Below ========

Dear mr matthew kitchen,

Thankyou for your enquiry. I can confirm that we do not block any ports on that account and there are no bandwidth limits or restrictions on the number of hours you may use the service.

Regards,

PlusNet Customer Support
--
http://portal.plus.net
The Smarter Way to Internet


stands back and ducks!







I feel that this needs furthe discusion and NOT a thread lock, as what happened in the thread it was posted

AT LAST SOMEONE WITH WRITTEN PROOF OF THE PN LIE !!!!

Moderators note by John (johnessex) Capitalization of title removed. Its rude and hard to read.
233 REPLIES
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

Hi there,

No one has ever denied the service was advertised as unlimited 2 years ago. Support at the time would have told you that. Do you think that we had prior knowledge of all the change of the past year?

I think you'll find every provider advertised an unlimited service at that time as we paid BTW a flat rate for ADSL.

I think if you read the forums carefully you will notice that we have allready conceded that the service was advertised as unlimited in the past :roll:

Sorry to dissapoint you but there is no conspiracy.

Regards,

Rich
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

To qoute of on many posts on the matter...

Quote
Nobody is deliberatly lying...

Some of us have had more exposure to these issues and it's not like there was a huge banner extolling the virtues of an unlimited service - It was one word that slipped in among other content. I will ensure this point is clearly understood by the CSC as soon as I can.

That behind is, more of an issue for me is that I'm entirely uncertain about what the relevance of talking about Unlimited is now:

- It's a topic that has been done to death in these forums since November. We have been over and over it again and a search for my posts from months ago will confirm I ackowelged the error in the use of this word a number of times.

- Unlimited is a word that is frequently misused in this industry. Some ISPs offer Unlimited services and then operate QoS or other bandwidth management to enable them to maintain their network. Who is taking the fair and right approach to the problems we have set-out?

- Contention, which defines how a product is designed has alwasy been made clear on the portal too. Are you saying you would have no objection if we had just let service speeds go to pot instead of introducing fair usage?

- Even under fair usage, the levels of which you can use the account are effectively unlimited (Not that that is a message I wish to spread - Usage of accounts in this way is still above the design and as such potentially problematic). Speeds are restricted after the fair usage threshold is exceeded for the third time in more or less consecutive months. At no point is the connection itself stopped. I know the immediate response to that, but the point is that even now every product is 'limited' by the very speed of the connection.

As you can see, there are plenty of semantics arguments. I don't think there is any point in us continuing them, as we are all wasting our time. If however you need clarification on any facts, or an explanation of why we have taken any particular decision, please don't hesitate to ask.


this was in regards to the "premier" product being advertised as unlimited.

Of course the ADSL Home (and equivalent) products of 12 months+ ago where advertised as unlimited, they did not say unlimited forever.

Regards,

Rich
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

Have a look on the left to see when I signed up....

I was promised this also by one of your sales advisors over the phone...

That is the reason I joined your company !!!!!!!!!

And no I didnt record the conversation, I just took your (PN) word for it.
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

That message was sent in 2003. You are now on a totally different product to the one refered to in that message. I dont see it's relevance here.

Again, you seem to be trying to proove something we have allready admitted?

Regards,

Rich
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,878
Registered: 04-04-2007

Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

The time of joining the forums isnt necessarily the time your account was signed up, its based on the first time you accessed the forums IIRC, although I might be wrong on this.

An email you recieved 2 years ago is harly proof to anything, PlusNet admit that they may have sold thier accounts on an unlimited basis in the past, but this has not happened for some time. Ok maybe you did have a conversation with someone from PlusNet, since then? Did they explicitly use the word unlimited? If they did then I agree there is a problem and you have been missold as I know from my discussions as part of the usergroup from pre October they where not using the wording of unlimited and where in early stages of considering CBC and the so called BBP.

Chris
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

The date in the left is the date you registered the account, not the date you first accessed the forum.
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

Quote
That message was sent in 2003. You are now on a totally different product to the one refered to in that message. I dont see it's relevance here.

Again, you seem to be trying to proove something we have allready admitted?

Regards,

Rich


Quote
The time of joining the forums isnt necessarily the time your account was signed up, its based on the first time you accessed the forums IIRC, although I might be wrong on this.

An email you recieved 2 years ago is harly proof to anything, PlusNet admit that they may have sold thier accounts on an unlimited basis in the past, but this has not happened for some time. Ok maybe you did have a conversation with someone from PlusNet, since then? Did they explicitly use the word unlimited? If they did then I agree there is a problem and you have been missold as I know from my discussions as part of the usergroup from pre October they where not using the wording of unlimited and where in early stages of considering CBC and the so called BBP.

Chris


again I urge you both to Actuly read my LAST post and see when I joined and then what I was sold (it was only 3 months ago)

simonbucknell
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 86


WHEREHuh?? are you getting 2 years from HuhHuh

do you guys actualy read posts or have you gone in to robotic mode with your replies ?
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

Quote


On 07/04/2003 @ 18:02 mr matthew kitchen wrote:
>hello could you please confirm that on the home install package that
>is £22,99 a month that you do not block any ports and also is there
>any bandwith restriction of number of hours usage per day?



Dear mr matthew kitchen,

Thankyou for your enquiry.

SNIP


As I said I hardly see how the text you quoted is relevant.

Regrds,

Rich
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

Well then let me start again :roll: :roll: :roll:

Mathew was sold this 2 years ago..... yesHuh?

I was sold this 3 months ago over the telephone by one of PN sales advisors "unlimited" I was quoted

This is the only reason i signed up to your service

I was quoted "verbally" exactly what mathew was quoted in his email

That was only 3 months ago

only to find this fair usage stuff 2 months later

I feel that I have been lied too, and from what I read in the forums so do many others.

When mathew posted this email he recieved Unsuprisingly the topic was locked hence my need for furthe discusion !!!!!
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

Im not one that complains far from it, Im more than happy with Plusnets service and support.

I've been with Plusnet since 22 Apr 2003 and always used the 2MB service. The service I've used has always been unlimited and only over these coming months the fair usage policy has been brough it. Its a fair policy and the way forward for all providers, if a customer is not happy with there package, just move up to a larger bandwidth or move providers its as simple as that.

My current usage is 10GB so far this month and the highest I've used is 58.91GB in December. Im happy with what I have and if I need more or less then the new fair usage system is great.

Keep it up Plusnet, happy customer and here to stay.
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

well @realist that realy answered the question at hand thanks for you input.
2mb since 2003 Huh??

( i take it that was your retaliation for my answer to your post on another topic)
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

PS

you need to upgrade your comp m8, theres some old stuff in there :lol:
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

bobpullen wrote:
This is true. The CSC staff will all have been in the realisation that the product set was to continue indefinately without the introduction of a FUP. With the advent of MaxDSL, we had to move quickly and thus was born the fair usage policy.

I am confident no-body has been deliberately misold a service by any of our customer service staff. People will have been advised given information at the agents' disposal at the time. Ian has also touched on the large amount of new starters due to the expansion of the business unit. These representatives may not have seen the wider picture of what we may have had the need to implement in the future.

To reiterate what has been said before: Our terms and conditions of service remain unchanged. If, however, a customer bound into a contract has any objections after implementation of the FUP, then we would be happy to waive the cost of cancelling.

I can only apologise if anybody feels deceived as a result of recent announcements as it was certainly not our intention.

Kind Regards,
Quote



deliberatly or not.... this is what I was sold ... and yes I feel decieved ...
so what are you going to do for me ?

only GOOD customer service answers accepted !!
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

Hi,

I'm really sorry that you feel this way, but I do not intend to go through this debate again. It really is pointless.

Were you sold an unlimited account? No. Did you really think the account was unlimited? Only you can answer this.

The reality of the situation is that the use of an account as if it were an uncontended 1:1 account is not sustainable and if this is how you wish to use your PlusNet I politely suggest you seek out of options.

Now before I hear cries of if the bandwidth is there I'm going to use it, or I only expect contention at my exchange and if I can download I will let me shatter another illusion.

The common misconception is that your 50:1 contention is applied exclusively at the exchange. At any further point down the line no contention shall be seen.
Well let me explain the realities.

Under CBC (and UBC, we can forget standard charging because that will be gone very soon) the exchange side contention is irrelevant. BT don't care about this. The effects of contention at the exchange will either be negligable or will never be seen. The effects of under provision at an exchange may be will still be there, for example where BT under estimate the demand at a particular exchange or there is a fault. But the effects of real contention will not be seen.

This will particular be the case when they start upgrading customers to 8Mbps. The VP's between the exchanges and RAS's are seeing massive upgrades so that they can support these faster speed services and not see them all grind to a halt at peak time.

Why are they doing this you may ask? Why are BT taking away contention. Well the simple answer is they can sell more central pipes. At £1.5 million pounds per year per 622 there's plenty of money to be brought in from the various ISP's.

If you think about it, if customers are heavily contended at the exchange, there's going to be less traffic going across the ISP's central pipes. less traffic means less pipes are needed. So what do they do, up the speeds remove the contention and let the ISP's set the contention rate on the central pipes.

So where are we going with this? Let me explain. You bought a 50:1 contended account, without looking at your account, let's assume it's 2Mbps. Probably fair to assume this as we expect that the majority of our customers will be on 2Mbps in less than a year.

So what does that buy you, let's break it down shall we?

We are ignoring downloads between 1am and 8am from all equations. Over a month this could in theory let you download 200GB, but we won't go there for the moment.

So that leaves us with 17 hours per day. At 1:1 contention you could hit about 400GB in theory. But you haven't bought 1:1 you;ve bought 50:1, so that gives you a fair slice at 8GB per month (400/50). That's if we were really racking up the contention and doing it on the nose. 8GB of peak time downloads.

Think of this. Imagine the total available bandwidth as a huge tank of water. Like the one that Rhonda climbs up in Tremors. And to give you your bandwidth we can either say here's a big glass of water, use it how you will (we give you your 8GB of peak time downloads and use it here and there), or you turn on the tap slowly and lit it drip, drip, drip into the glass, (i.e. you constantly download so that over the course of the month the total is again 8GB).

The reality of course is that you can download more than 8GB, you can download as much as you want, even get to that 400GB figure, in 1 month, even in 2 months. But, going back to the water, what fair usage does is give you a fair share of the peak bandwidth that you can use. At £21.99 your fair share is 30GB. Note 30GB not 8GB which is well above the advertised contention rate. Now you can use your 30GB how you like, constantly download, or all in one go, again like the water analagy.

I think I've gone on enough now. But think carefully, think long, think hard. Remember that your "unlimited" is and always has been subject to contention, contention at 50:1. Contention that means your "unlimited" connection can download 8GB per month. Have you download more than 8GB in a month? Can you continue to download more than 8GB in a month? (Again peak hours here).
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Unlimited (yes a new post) The PN lie

With the greatest respect Dave, we have done all this allready in previous posts,

this is not what I am after

as the tittle of my thread sugests, I am just after answers on why I was Lied to in the first place.

as I have explained in previous threads I can live with your CAP my max in any 1 month was 150gb (all illegal :lol: just to stop repetative posts) with probably a max d/l of 80gb, so taking 1am till 8am into consideration "I aint got a problem", but what I do have a problem with is being lied to by your staff and being sold somthing I aint gonna ever get.

thats what I want answers on, not T&Cs and all the rest of it

with respect

Simon

PS

And yes I can continue to download 8gb in a month, I do that over 2 days (sometimes) and as I have stated previosley " think its high time a Directorentered this forum and was acountable for some answers"

Quote
Thankyou for your enquiry. I can confirm that we do not block any ports on that account and there are no bandwidth limits or restrictions on the number of hours you may use the service