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Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

carrot63
Grafter
Posts: 599
Registered: 12-07-2007

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

When the random disconnections issue hit the big time, Plusnet were initially a little slow off the mark (!) in admitting that there was a problem. At the time, and occasionally since, a few users who had been LLU'd for months posted claims that the issue was not in fact news to them, and that they had been getting random disconnections since being LLU'd - but that support had used the stock comeback and dismissed these as problems at the users end.

Before the large scale disconnects started on the 25th Aug, I'd been on LLU for 2 weeks, and had been getting some disconnects, but wasn't paying much attention as they were relatively infrequent (although way, way more frequent than with MaxDSL which lost sync once every 2 or 3 days at most) and I was too busy being annoyed at being transferred by stealth. After the large scale problem started, I thought it was the same issue, but didn't think I had any logs (and no l8nc graph) to check back on.

Checking my mailbox today I found I did actually have some logs for the period 7-25th Aug, and they showed a good few disconnects. While many were very brief and lasted only a minute, quite a few were of the same character we are now so sadly familiar with, several minutes long. There were some losses of sync during the period covered by the logs, but none of these coincides with a "LCP down" entry.

Unfortunately the logs cover only parts of the period, with the rest lost or discarded as I was frequently rebooting the router to try and clear the "stable rate" which was still stuck at the IP stream cap that had dropped to 2000k, and it was only later changed by support to 8000k.

7th Aug - 10
10th Aug - 8
11th Aug - 4
12th Aug - 1
15th Aug - 1
16th Aug - 4
18th Aug - 2
23rd Aug - 3
24th Aug - 4

And then it all hit the fan:

25th Aug - 20

While not on the epic scale of post 25th Aug issues, it seems the random disconnects were always there, at least for my brief time on LLU. I have no way of knowing what happened outside the brief and sketchy periods of the logs, but its safe to assume I didn't just get lucky with the bits I have got, and that there were more over this period. For me this lends a good bit of creedence to those who claim it had been going on since the beginning (I didnt really doubt it).

So the question is, were these another issue entirely unique to me, and someone just punched the wrong button on 25th Aug? Or is there a terminal flaw in Tiscali's LLU? Or Ticali's LLU as it interacts with Plusnet? Are Tiscali the digital wing of Al-Qaida and its all a plot to destabilise western society? Maybe not the last.

I've learned far more about ADSL in the least few weeks than I would ever have wanted to know in a lifetime, and my suppositions are not based on a deep knowledge of how it all works. But gut instinct and a deep distrust of Tiscali's abilities / honesty make me think there's more than meets the eye. Would Tiscali really be going round saying "Listen we've got this LLU thingy to roll out, but it's a bit flawed"?

If anyone else has old router logs from pre 25th Aug, it would be interesting to compare and see if this was just me or a wider problem.
9 REPLIES
kreynolds
Grafter
Posts: 433
Registered: 05-04-2007

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

From the logs I've got since LLU'd 03/08/06

03/08 - 2
04/08 - 0
05/08 - 0
06/08 - 0
07/08 - 0
08/08 - 2
09/08 - 1
10/08 - 0
13/08 - 6
14/08 - 0
05/08 - 0
16/08 - 0
17/08 - 3
18/08 - 1
19/08 - 0
20/08 - 0
21/08 - 0
22/08 - 1
23/08 - 6
24/08 - 19 and 21 loss of synch
25/08 - 8 and 7 loss of synch

Got disconnected whilst typing this out
carrot63
Grafter
Posts: 599
Registered: 12-07-2007

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

I got disconnected trying to bring up your reply.

Did you have any random disconnects pre LLU?
kreynolds
Grafter
Posts: 433
Registered: 05-04-2007

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

Only 2 in June.

Had a nice stable connection through the Cisco kit, THN-AG2 for almost 16 hours yesterday.
N/A

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

here's snippet of my log file from august 10th. i received the email telling me my broadband had been "upgraded" on july 4th, and experienced disconnctions from then on. i first raised a ticket on july 26th.

Thu, 2006-08-10 11:48:46 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:48:54 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:48:55 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:49:55 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:49:55 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:50:56 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:50:56 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:51:57 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:51:57 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:52:57 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:52:57 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:53:58 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:53:58 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:54:59 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:54:59 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:55:59 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:56:00 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:57:00 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:57:00 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 11:57:22 - CHAP authentication success
Thu, 2006-08-10 12:05:12 - Loss of synchronization :6
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:55:39 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:55:47 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:55:47 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:56:48 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:56:48 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:57:48 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:57:49 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:58:49 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:58:49 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:59:50 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 17:59:50 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 18:00:51 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 18:00:51 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 18:01:51 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2006-08-10 18:01:51 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2006-08-10 18:02:08 - CHAP authentication success
carrot63
Grafter
Posts: 599
Registered: 12-07-2007

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

They have a very familiar look to them, don't they? However I checked my times for the 10th Aug, and they don't match yours, not even close. Surprising if it was the same issue as we have now.

For 10 Aug I have:

Thu, 2006-08-10 09:24:08 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-08-10 09:26:37 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-08-10 09:31:33 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-08-10 14:16:15 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-08-10 20:03:48 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-08-10 22:28:15 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-08-10 22:31:04 - LCP down.
Thu, 2006-08-10 22:34:14 - LCP down.
Liam
Grafter
Posts: 2,083
Registered: 04-04-2007

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

Not all customers are generally dropped at the same time, but most probably are seeing disconnects of some sort.

We did experience issues and disconnections with the Cisco kit we deployed yesterday. We are continuing to monitor the situation, as are Tiscali.
carrot63
Grafter
Posts: 599
Registered: 12-07-2007

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

Liam,

The discussion here is whether this problem existed prior to the documented "start" of the disconnections around 25th Aug. A couple of users in the thread below claimed to have had the same thing for months. As you can see from the other posters here we all had more disconnects than we would have had on BT.

Since the disconnections increased in frequency most users posting graphs on here seem to have shared many of the disconnection times, although not all and not exactly the same time, but usually very close.

http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=47408
Liam
Grafter
Posts: 2,083
Registered: 04-04-2007

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

Ah right. Though my comment is valid with regards to the problem we're seeing now.

We opened a problem on this as soon as we saw the issues occur. James posted some graphs on this the other day so it's fairly easy to see drops in connection across the userbase.
carrot63
Grafter
Posts: 599
Registered: 12-07-2007

Truth or Porky pies: LLU disconnect hell started 25th Aug?

Your comment is indeed valid with regard to the current problem. I saw James posted graphs, and it strikes me that while they are great when a lot of people disconnect, they are less useful if it's a few, although I can only guess at the scale used. Which may explain why reported problems that predate the 25th Aug (presumably affecting smaller numbers of users and less frequently) were not accepted as an issue on Plusnet or Tiscali's systems, but seem to have been assumed to be the users problems with line/modem/weather/cars etc, etc.

I suppose the real thrust of my post is when this is all "fixed", will it be fixed fixed, or just pre 25th of August fixed, which doesn't in retrospect appear to be fixed at all, more sort of 'return to the status quo' than fixed in fact, albeit for a smaller number of users and less often.