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Throttling

Grimbo
Grafter
Posts: 397
Registered: 23-05-2007

Throttling

I'm convinced that throttling (shaping) is taking place at Plusnet...

Downloads plod on during the day, then at midnight they rocket.

I have raised tickets and Plusnet insist that I am not under any kind of management.

Could some users of P2P set a download away at about 23:00 and monitor what happens just after midnight and report back.
62 REPLIES
N/A

Throttling

Hi there grimbo,

Clearly you havent been around for a while.

Where to start?. Yes Plus net do manage the network and they apply shaping to various protocols and have done for a while now.

Have a read th The Vision post and some of the links therein for starters.

Have a look also at the information from the UserGroup here

The CSC probably mean that you are not on onee of the applied management levels as described in the various articles.

Hope that helps.
Grimbo
Grafter
Posts: 397
Registered: 23-05-2007

Throttling

Quote
Clearly you havent been around for a while.


:lol:

I have been with Plusnet (and force9) since September 1998...

Maybe you would be kind enough to offer your simple explaination to the support guys who didn't know why the speed increased at midnight and suggested I do BT speedtests.
N/A

Throttling

Hi there,

I wasnt referring to the length of time you have been a customer, I was referring to the forums Smiley

As for explaining the CSC response, other than the suggestion I made in my original reply, I am all out of ideas. Smiley
Grimbo
Grafter
Posts: 397
Registered: 23-05-2007

Throttling

Quote
I wasnt referring to the length of time you have been a customer, I was referring to the forums Smiley


Ok, well a quick search shows the first of my 117 forum postings was on 17 Dec 2001.

So now thats been put to bed, can I please continue my post without any further condescending or diversionary interruptions.

I'm looking for P2P users (who aren't managed) to set away a download at around 22:00 or 23:00 at night and monitor the download over midnight and report if they see a significant increase in speed.

Thanks.
N/A

Throttling

Hi there,

I think that you have totally misunderstood me.

Far from being condescending or diversionary i was simply responding to your post.

Quote
I'm convinced that throttling (shaping) is taking place at Plusnet...


Shaping is taking place and has been for a while. The links I provided will explain this to you. Downloads via P2P will increase after midnight, as that is outside peak periods.

I added that you clearly have not been a regular on the forums for a few months or you would have known what was happening and that was all there was too it.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,878
Registered: 04-04-2007

Throttling

Quote
So now thats been put to bed, can I please continue my post without any further condescending or diversionary interruptions.


I haven't seen any posts from Mark like that. All I've seen is you ask a question and Mark do his best to provide you with the information. Mark clearly meant you haven't kept up on forum activities by his post, this isn't a slur, or a problem, its a fact otherwise you wouldn;t have asked.
passer
Grafter
Posts: 381
Registered: 06-04-2007

Throttling

grimbo -

you clearly misunderstood Mark, who wasn't being at all patronising. Let's leave that one alone.

Regarding your query, PlusNet have rendered P2P virtually unusable at line speeds from 0800 till 2400. It will creak along at just above dialup speeds, but will show an improvement at about 10 past midnight, sometimes to line speed. Depending on which P2P client you use, you can observe the network twitch at the midnight hour on the graphs.
The prognosis for this is not good, and like many others (including me), if you wish to continue to use P2P you'd be better off finding another ISP. We're not wanted around here, and that's the truth of the matter. PlusNet are not making any conciliatory noises about this, it appears to be a business-model decision.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,656
Registered: 13-06-2007

Throttling

I wouldnt say P2P is unusable, I was downloading on P2P all morning and was going at around line speed but yes there is shaping going on although I personally haven't noticed it.
passer
Grafter
Posts: 381
Registered: 06-04-2007

Throttling

point taken, Andy. However, the problem is that the service provision for P2P is unpredictable and not guaranteed. This is what the users are bleating about.

P2P is first up against the wall if anybody farts in the general direction of any of the other services; it is the uncontested poor relation of the services. It's also a very important part of the broadband experience for a large number of users, and the reason that a large number of people took up broadband in the first place. By constantly downgrading its staus within their model, PlusNet are indicating that they don't wish to provide this service any more; they would rather concentrate their resource on the typical BB+ user. This is fine, and entirely up to them.

Where they are failing is in their unwillingness to confront the unpalatable fact that a number of their customers on whom they built their systems and their reputation are now surplus to requirements. Rather like the elderly relatives at the party, who are ushered into a corner and drip-fed brief visits and stilted conversation from whoever's turn it is.

What they need to do is to bite the bullet, and send the elderly relatives off to a home for the bewildered (read - another ISP) and let everyone get on with their lives. Unfortunately, they seem to lack the balls to do this.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,656
Registered: 13-06-2007

Throttling

I totally agree with you, P2P is a big part of many users internet now and will continue to grow with the likes of Sky and BBC using it.

The problem with P2P is that it can be unpredictable, a lot of P2P programs simply won't function on a network or router without port forwarding and many files that some people want to download are poorly available (may only be able to download from 1 or 2 sources) so you are never guranteed full line speed for any file, It would be great to try and get a way of testing speeds on P2P to try and identify where faults lie
Grimbo
Grafter
Posts: 397
Registered: 23-05-2007

Throttling

Ok, I apologise to Mark for taking what was said the wrong way.

I am fully aware of traffic management issues and I am frustrated that a thread I have raised for a very specific purpose has degenerated into another of the many discussions about traffic management.

A non-managed Premier user shouldn't see any difference between a P2P download at 23:50 and 00:10.

Contact us tickets suggest it is a coincidence and blame it on contention.

I just want to do a little user based test to see if this coincidence strikes a lot of people simultaneously before I go phoning Arthur C Clarke.
N/A

Throttling

Quote
A non-managed Premier user


But thats the point. you are managed. We all are when it comes to P2P.

23.50 is peak time 00.10 is not, hence the difference.

Currently 0800 - 23.59 is peak and is when the network is busiest thats why it is slower.
N/A

Throttling

Quote
...
A non-managed Premier user shouldn't see any difference between a P2P download at 23:50 and 00:10.
...


The problem is that PN are not offering such a beast. What they cunningly claim is that you will get 'up to' your line speed, but they only allocate a limited amount of bandwidth for P2P in the Ellacoyas and all P2P users get lumped into that capacity.

If you are using a P2P client that can handle encryption (e.g. Azureus 2.4) then try turning it on. The Ellacoyas currently don't identify encrypted packets as P2P and your speed should improve noticably.

It's all down to PN selling lots of cheap BB+ accounts (to users who want to use the service during peak hours), and then failing to buy enough extra capacity to make things usable durring peak (70% more users and less than 10% extra bandwidth in a year, do the sums).
Grimbo
Grafter
Posts: 397
Registered: 23-05-2007

Throttling

Quote
Quote
A non-managed Premier user


But thats the point. you are managed. We all are when it comes to P2P.

23.50 is peak time 00.10 is not, hence the difference.

Currently 0800 - 23.59 is peak and is when the network is busiest thats why it is slower.


Still not sure if we are talking about the same thing... Are you saying that at 24:00, Plusnet switch off some kind of traffic shaping device or are you saying that at 24:00, most people go to bed therefore traffic is reduced.