cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Support .... yes I know again

N/A

Support .... yes I know again

After well over a week of dropped connections, some of which I can re connect immediatly at other times it can be off all day and night. Knowing the backlog of support tickets I didn't raise a fault untill I had exausted all tests at my end, including borrowing a modem/router connecting it to the main BT socket and unpluging the phones leaving it like this from mid day to when we went to bed.

In the end I asked Plusnet to look into it, I received the following...
Quote
Our connection logs are currently showing you as having connected to the internet since the fault was raised. As the issue now appears to be resolved, I am closing this ticket off
While this is true the disconnections are very random and has dropped since, so I wrote back saying somethings wrong somewhere and althought I'm now connected it is dropping regular.

Their reply was ...
Quote
the only step we have left is to escalate this issue with BT.



I must make you aware before we do this, that if BT further investigate and confirm that there is no fault, or that the issue is being caused by anything at your side, then they charge a failed fault check fee to you, which starts at £46.00 +VAT.
If it is indeed a fault at my end I don't have a problem with being charged but.... I take exception to being charged if the engineer can't find one. What happend if it's an intermittent fault which does not show when the tests are carried out??

Some may say that this could be interpreted as a veiled threat trying to intimidate the customer into accepting a shoddy service, I wouldn't at this time but.... it's either accept it or be prepared to pay ... who knows what +VAT

P.S I am not on MaxDSL 8meg or what ever just plugged into BT's exchange on what was a rock steady 512 then 1meg then 2meg feed.

I was going to rant about PN's new customer phone service but I think others have said it all Evil
8 REPLIES
N/A

Support .... yes I know again

Torret, you can't blame PN for a service charge imposed by a BT and their engineer. You have to remember that at the end of the day BT own the equipment in your local exchange and the line running to your house, they are the chaps responsible for diagnosing this part and considering how poor any of these components can be in the UK's wonderful archaic telecommunications infrastructure they must get a lot of work, therefore why not charge for it...

Incidentally you might be getting MAX upgraded automatically, this is one of the symptoms of the line training to test the maximum sustainable speed you can achieve, if that isn't the case I would suggest replacing the ADSL filter.
N/A

Support .... yes I know again

So what your saying is ... That if you were to hire a car from one of the leading hire co and that car cut out every couple of miles you'd be willing to foot the garage bill to diagnose the fault??

I pay £21.99 a month for this service, this I believe is what PN considered would cover all their costs in providing this service and leave a good profit margin. Perhaps PN have their sums wrong and forgot to factor in maintenance costs and are now passing these on to the end consumer. I don't recall reading anything about this when I signed up, but perhaps I missed it.

As for Maxdsl my exchange was upgraded in Feb of this year I could have asked to be upgraded but thought it would be better to get the teething problems out of the way first as I don't need the extra speed, the largest file I handle are database table backups which only take seconds anyway plus the roll out has been halted untill the problems are sorted anyway.

ADSL filters ?? what are they Huh Wink The point is that PN are trying to charge you and me their maintenance charges.
N/A

Support .... yes I know again

Hi there,

Quote
Perhaps PN have their sums wrong and forgot to factor in maintenance costs and are now passing these on to the end consumer


Not quite true.

BT, on whose kit your adsl is provisioned, are only responsible for the line up to your master socket. Your internal wiring and other equipment is your responsibility and yours alone.

The charge will only be levelled, by BT, if the fault is found to be your equipment or internal wiring. No-one is passing on maintenance cost to the end user. This is the position with BT and all ISP's.

If the fault lies within your mastersocket or your telephone line, BT will bear the cost. You pay PlusNet for your ADSL service. You pay BT for the line and thus it remains their responsibility.

If you carry out all the required checks and eliminate your side of the equation, you have nothing at all to worry about.
N/A

Support .... yes I know again

I wish you would read the posts fully
Quote
If it is indeed a fault at my end I don't have a problem with being charged

Quote
I must make you aware before we do this, that if BT further investigate and confirm that there is no fault, or that the issue is being caused by anything at your side, then they charge a failed fault check fee to you

Quote
What happend if it's an intermittent fault which does not show when the tests are carried out?Huh
I guess I get charged and your statment "If you carry out all the required checks and eliminate your side of the equation, you have nothing at all to worry about." is worthless

I have an agreement with Plusnet to supply retail broadband to me. Plusnet have an agreement with BT to supply wholesale broadband to them. I don't have any agreement with BT except for my phone connection. Any extra cost involved in the supply and maintanance of the retail broadband to me should be covered by the supplier ,Plusnet.

I know I'm not going to win this argument and I know I have three choices, either pay up continue with the substandard service or move.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,886
Registered: 05-04-2007

Support .... yes I know again

Quote


I have an agreement with Plusnet to supply retail broadband to me. Plusnet have an agreement with BT to supply wholesale broadband to them. I don't have any agreement with BT except for my phone connection. Any extra cost involved in the supply and maintanance of the retail broadband to me should be covered by the supplier ,Plusnet.

I know I'm not going to win this argument and I know I have three choices, either pay up continue with the substandard service or move.


Torret,

I don't think that Mark (pcnsi) has failed to read your posts properly, nor has he taken anyones' side here, he is merely stating fact to you.

As it is, ADSL does not have any kind of SLA (Service Level Agreement) attached to it, and this is true across the board with all ISP's as BTW do not provide the same from their end.

BT will maintain their phone lines and exchanges as they are expected to by the regulatory authorities.

As there is no separate line that your broadband is provided to you on (unless you have SDSL) then yes BT are responsible for keeping your telephone line in good shape as far as possible, but Plusnet are only responsible for their portion of the network as far as it goes to the BT Central pipes.

After that, it's all in the hands of BT Wholesale, so if there is a problem outside of PN's network on the BT side, then BT pick up the cost of the repair, nobody else, same with PN and your own internal wiring...
N/A

Support .... yes I know again

Hi torret.

Sorry if my post came across as anything other than help or advice. I am not being confrontational. Just trying to help and clearly not doing a great job of it.

Reality of the situation is, that BT will not level the charge unless they prove that the problem is your fault or caused by your equipment or internal wiring.

If you have checked that and ruled it out, then as I mentioned previously, you have nothing to worry about.

Your connection is dropping intermittently. BT and PN deal with similar issues everyday. They know when a customer is pulling the wool or bluffing. I honestly feel that you have nothing to be concerned about. The charge is there for a reason and it is not intended to put customers off raising a fault.
hillers
Grafter
Posts: 37
Registered: 16-08-2007

Support .... yes I know again

I've had the same problem since I was max'd and had ticket open for nearly 7weeks now.
Had to give in and request BT to investigate since I was getting no where with the same reply no fault found but we can get BT to investigate at my expense if no fault is found.
Should find out my results on Friday or Saturday, but I'm sure its a SNR issue since I had this reply last month:

Unfortunately we are unable to regrade you back to the old IPStream product now that you are on MaxDSL.

I have further tested your line, to see if I could highlight anything, and this has shown a possible issue with the margin (SNR) value on the connection.

The line test has shown your margin value as being 6dB.

Now with MaxDSL, the service can run with the margin as low as 4dB, but in some cases a margin value of less than 9dB could possibly cause the connection to drop.

As MaxDSL is rate adaptive this should see the drops and adjust the margin accordingly, but sometimes you need to manually force this.

So that we can try and force your line to adjust the margin to a higher value could you try restarting your modem/router repeatedly, allowing it to power up and synch with the line and connect, then power it down and repeat this.

If you could do this several times over the space of an hour and a half, this should then force the system to increase the margin.
N/A

Support .... yes I know again

Hello,

Torret, I am with you 100% on this one.

I have been going through the same loops over the last couple of weeks. PN have said that the intermittent connectivity problems are the hardest one to solve. They tried to close mine as well indicating that I was able to connect. I asked them to re-look into the connection log and there they saw that especially the last couple of weeks there are a lot of 10-20min kind of connections.

Clearly there are some longer periods during the night where they say it is on. I don't know - not sitting behind my pc at 2am.

On several occassions have they said that they have escalated the problem to the wholesaler, but I have never heard / seen anything about it.

Furthermore what I don't understand is why we are hammering so much on if the problem is in your master socket / filter or cables in the house. If someone has a router problem....allright that is a likely cause, however if we look at the forum and type of problems, everyone seemed suddenly to have intermittent problems over the last couple of weeks, but we are not seeing increases on google search that suddenly e.g. all belkin or netgear routers decided to play up since end of june.

Regarding the cabling and sockets. We are talking here about internal glass fibre / copper wiring. These cables don't degrade unless they get damaged. Would many people suddenly be hammering their cables? I don't believe this as a likely cause.

Finally the microfilter. I have lived in 4 EU countries over the last 6 years. I had ADSL in all of them. All have always worked without a microfilter. So if you cut that one out it still worked. In addition if you google for the following 3 independent words: defect adsl microfilter
then google gives you 118 results for the UK. I am sure that based on the number of years there has been ADSL in this country and if historic connectivity problems would have been caused by faulty filters, this number would have been drastically higher.

In my opinion 95% of the problems sit somewhere between the wholesaler and the retailer and the retailer is claiming on support calls (I had one today) that they don't have any influence whatsoever over there wholesaler. If that would be the case then the ISP are in for a lot of problems.

The UK Consumer Law states that: Internet retailers are liable to consumers for the quality and safety of the products purchased. They are also obliged to ensure that consumers receive specific and accurate information relating to the retailer and the products it sells.

So since the ISP's are not required to deliver a 100% always connection (and I can understand that). I think that the ISP incl. PN start making fair statements about what level they think they realistically can achieve and what they are achieving on a weekly basis. Since if I would want to move e.g. To Tiscali and know upfront that they have only 60% connectivity guarantee with a certain pricing policy, I might decide not to join.

Furthermore already certain countries (incl NL) are addressing the legality of the number of months / years consumers are tied into contracts. Forcing ISP's and Telco's to make it easier for users to switch without needing to either pay remainder months / pay a penality.

I believe this has become a bit of an essay, but believe there are some valid points Smiley

I think that most people who are venting their problems would be less adament about it if PN would leave the impression that the problem will be dealt with adequality within a certain time frame. Honestly I think most people believe that they are not doing that.