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Scorned Prophet

N/A

Scorned Prophet

Hi,

It is now painfully obvious that whoever at BT said that the infrastructure could cope with the speed regrade was wrong. Painfully, shamefully and utterly wrong.
All business and domestic premises need equipment upgrades to cope with the upgraded exchanges. The present kit is not doing the job.

As of now the whole ADSL network is a shambles. Not just for Plusnet but for other ISP's. It is not a problem that is limited just to Plusnet as other ISP's users are also complaining about the same thing. Stable, reliable connections went to pot as soon as the regrade was implemented.

Many years from now when retired BT engineers are laughing about the debacle of '05 and afterwards, they will remember with uproarious laughter the abuse and vile epithets that were targeted at the one person who put his finger plumb on the problem.

Hence the subject title. Cheesy

Fred
19 REPLIES
N/A

Scorned Prophet

The problem is no-one wants to invest in new hardware and to re-do the telephone cabling system.

Unfortunately we will soon be at a point where both will be needed, in order to maintain a functional internet system.

Whilst using wireless may be a way around, the speed of it needs to vastly increase (I found that a 125 mpbs wireless 'turbo' system was actually vastly slower than a 54mpbs one).
N/A

Scorned Prophet

Your post raises quite a few interesting points, but seems to lack knowledge of some of the more public projects BT and others companies are involved in, and additionaly the fact that physics is not something BT can reinvent.

Connection stability is all down to the actual line. No amount of equipment exchange or end-user side is going to fix this. Equipment can't get around limitations as defined by laws of physics.

Replacing a cable may not be the cure either. To replace the copper or even go-fresh and lay fiber is of little use. Considering that to cable single average sized road, could cost millions on its own.

Yes, cost savings are to be made by doing roads on bulk, it doesn't get around many of the hundreds of stumbling blocks put in the way.

Many many councils refuse to have cable providers lay on the streets of towns. This is something BT will also face.

The one major issue which people forget about when they talk about the shambles of the end-user speeds, is the core network. There is no point giving the end-user anything, unless there is a core network to support the services.

BT are currently in the process of rolling out the 21CN (21st Century Network), which will allow for a more dynamic and easily exandable core. Providing new products, and quicker (time to deploy, not speeds).

Another issue companies like BT are going to face as people take on faster speeds, is cross-talk. This is another law of physics.

As more any more people take on broadband, and more and more of those gets faster speeds, the more cable pair cross-talk we are going to see. This is a connection stability killer in itself.

Many people blame the wrong people, for the wrong things at the wrong time.
Metalguru
Grafter
Posts: 791
Registered: 04-08-2007

Scorned Prophet

Quote
............................ As more any more people take on broadband, and more and more of those gets faster speeds, the more cable pair cross-talk we are going to see. This is a connection stability killer in itself................

Sounds like the old "Party Lines" we use to have many years ago, that would allow me to "accidentally" listen in on other peoples telephone conversations! (Yer gotta be old to remember those).

[Moderator's note by Chris (Eurotrain4): Fixed quote tags]
N/A

Scorned Prophet

Phillip,

How could you , you beast! Where is that sensitive, artistic soul full of empathy that has been so clear in your previous posts on this forum?

Quote
Your post raises quite a few interesting points,
Connection stability is all down to the actual line. No amount of equipment exchange or end-user side is going to fix this. Equipment can't get around limitations as defined by laws of physics..


I give you passion, emotion, drama, heart-rending misery, and you give me...physics!

And whichever way you slice it, the kit still isn't up to the job being asked of it.

Cheesy

PS. Majority of your post edited to favour me...Smiley

Fred,
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Scorned Prophet

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And whichever way you slice it, the kit still isn't up to the job being asked of it.


No matter which way you slice it, it isn't the kits fault. Physics dictates that the longer the line, the more signal that is lost.

The operate word is lost

No matter how much money your spend on equipment, £10 or £10 million, it can't get that lost information back.

It can't make the telephone cable better quality, only physcialy changing the cable will do that. Then, even after a top quality cable is installed, it isn't going to stop physics degrading the signal on longer lengths of cable.
silentmonkey
Rising Star
Posts: 80
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 1
Registered: 15-09-2007

Scorned Prophet

Sorry Phil I must agree with Fred.

I can remember the old GPO modems running a 1200Baud. Now we have 2Mb, well some do anyway (my signal loss is to great so I only get 1Mb Cry ). What's change? Not the copper that’s for sure. Its the technology in the modems that has improved. What may be "Lost" today will be heard by the amps in the modems and repeaters of tomorrow.

Mark
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Scorned Prophet

Quote
Quote
And whichever way you slice it, the kit still isn't up to the job being asked of it.


No matter which way you slice it, it isn't the kits fault.
.


Oh yes it is!

***Alertt: Sense of humour failure detected.*** Customer lost connection, again, while typing reply.

Solution: Ignore
Solution: Apply spin control. (Note from customer's mother; too much spin and he throws up over family dog.)
Solution: Fix it!
Solution: Spend endless amount of time explaining why our people (Plusnet) want those responsible for above( "£*!!% BT) to attempt Solution 3.

***End Alert: Resume Abnormal Service until 21st Century Technology implemented***

Fred,

AAAgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,877
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

Scorned Prophet

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Scorned Prophet

Your sense of humor looks more like the bablings found in the Sun newspaper.

*SENSE OF HOUMOR ALERT - LEVEL: same low one as chosen by previous users*

Lets examine the history behind FTTH (Fiber to the Home) in the UK, and find who caused all these real problems, and pin blame on the real culprits.

In the early 80s, though I cant find if it was pre or post-BT, an attempt was made to roll out FTTH. Shock horror, the Thatcher government said NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Instead of allowing this early tehcnology, which would have seen the UK as one of the broadband market leading in the world today, it was said that the cable companies should be allowed to roll out this technology.

Well, look where that decision got us!!!

It got us with at least one cable co in the Red (NTL), and all cable co's with rollout plans that have only just restarted.

Guess what else?
No Fiber

Now we live in an age were the cost to rollout such products is millions of pounds for a single road. Lets examine your own town for a second. How many roads does it have?

For a start, as sample search on my own town shows that 249 roads have had house sales in the past 2 years. I can go back further than this if I want, and there is a hell of a lot more roads than this.

So your talking many hundreds of millions for a single town, and likely more.

Now how many towns are in the UK again?

Guess what, that is all without a core network to support it.

I am truly not being funny, but you appear to have no clue at all about the history of the technologies that run broadband in the UK. It's a very common problem.

The same can be said for people blaming BT for the prices of broadband in the UK. They are forced to charge high rates, go figure.

Todays government are no inocent party what so ever either. Prior to the last General Election, our PM Tony Blair took the stage and professed during a speach about future policy, how they would get the UK near enough broadband enabled by the end of 2005. Those that couldn't take ADSL, would be offered alternatives (like satalite).

Guess what?
They had no involvment in getting broadband to the masses. This was pretty much privately funded by BT. The projects that are government funded only received priority treatment, and would have been done in time anyhow.

We are now in the latter quater of 2005, and the governments promises to offer those that could not get ADSL an alternative, have yet to materialise

So, as much as you profess that BT are the blame for the laws of physics, which are very very much pre-BT, or they have failed to bring us faster technologies, these statements are very much false.
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Scorned Prophet


I have never seen an optic cable in the flesh - wouldn't it be possible to string them up between poles like the normal copper wire in use at the moment? Probably not but who knows about in the future.

Also on the horizon is - WiMAX, this development may be the way forward, again who really knows? The IT industry is changing fast so in the future may not be as far away as we think.
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Scorned Prophet

Ignore. Double posted. This one removed

Fred,
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Scorned Prophet

Phillip,

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Your sense of humor looks more like the bablings found in the Sun newspaper.

*SENSE OF HOUMOR ALERT - LEVEL: same low one as chosen by previous users*


That as any professional comedian will enlighten you is the problem with humour. What has them rolling in the aisles in one county can leave them stiff as boards in the adjoining one.

Quote
Lets examine the history behind FTTH (Fiber to the Home) in the UK, and find who caused all these real problems, and pin blame on the real culprits.
.


Yes that's what I recall reading and also an industry IT expert saying, his opinion not mine, that FTH would have been totally unsuitable and the ISP structure as we know it to this point would not exist. (This was a few years ago mind, in a respected computer magazine)

Quote


So, as much as you profess that BT are the blame for the laws of physics, which are very very much pre-BT, or they have failed to bring us faster technologies, these statements are very much false.


I never said BT are to blame for the laws of physics! Blame Einstein, Newton and a horde of other nosy dabblers in things that we do not understand for our knowledge, or lack of it, about present day physics.

At least your family and friends will never be able to lose you in a crowd, Phillip. All they have to do is listen for the gentle tinkle of ankle-bells and there you will be . Wink
Alecto
Grafter
Posts: 2,886
Registered: 30-07-2007

Scorned Prophet

Quote

I never said BT are to blame for the laws of physics! Blame Einstein, Newton and a horde of other nosy dabblers in things that we do not understand:


I don't think Einstein was the cause of the laws of physics either Tongue
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Scorned Prophet

Quote
Quote

I never said BT are to blame for the laws of physics! Blame Einstein, Newton and a horde of other nosy dabblers in things that we do not understand:


I don't think Einstein was the cause of the laws of physics either Tongue


Oh, I think his General Theory of Relativity and unfinished Grand Unified one will be in there somewhere... Cheesy

Fred,