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SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

JonathanW
Grafter
Posts: 2,648
Registered: 02-10-2007

SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

Quote
However, after the 16th September, PN introduced the SUP limits, the Usenet limits, throttle P2P way beyond what we had been lead to believe - all without any prior notice (or in fact any notice to 99% of their customers) despite their alledged commitment to "giving you 'reasonable notice' of any changes, upgrades or alterations to the service." (my emphasis on any - can't see how that equates to "any which affect 99% of customers"), and all without any ability to opt out of 12 month contracts for those who agreed with the 16th Sept changes but not the subsequent ones.

Matthew


Hi,

With regards to your comments, the SUP has been in place for quite some time. Its just that the figures were made available during September, rather than people having to limit their usage without knowing what level they should limit it to.

As for the recent changes to usenet, this is also covered by the terms and conditions that everyone has accepted, as we state that certain traffic might be managed or prioritised in order to protect our network.

Edited to add quote of previous post, due to it being over the page.

Moderators note by John (johnessex) fontsize of edit note changed to make it readable.
11 REPLIES
shellsong
Grafter
Posts: 2,191
Registered: 03-08-2007

SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

Mr Whiting-- you are off topic, as were the posts you were responding to!!!!

I seem to be unable to delete this post which is no longer relevant due to the split!
ceridwen
Grafter
Posts: 937
Registered: 14-10-2007

SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

Quote
With regards to your comments, the SUP has been in place for quite some time. Its just that the figures were made available during September, rather than people having to limit their usage without knowing what level they should limit it to.


The e-mail sent to all customers describing the post-FUP products state that these would be managed by contention alone - not by contention, traffic shaping, and SUP. SUP was not explicitly mentioned in the new T&Cs nor have many customers been informed of it (despite your claim to "giving you 'reasonable notice' of any changes, upgrades or alterations to the service").

A number of conscientious customers had contact PN CS either on these forums or directly prior to the SUP limits being released about what was a sustainable level of usage - all had been told much higher values than were published in the SUP limits. The announcement of SUP was therefore a change in the service.

Quote
As for the recent changes to usenet, this is also covered by the terms and conditions that everyone has accepted, as we state that certain traffic might be managed or prioritised in order to protect our network.


The fact that the T&Cs say that certain traffic might be managed does not change the fact that actually limiting Usenet traffic is a material change in the service (and you commited in your August e-mail to giving 'reasonable notice' of any changes, upgrades or alterations to the service

Also a clause allowing you to arbitrarily change the service is unlikely to be upheld by a court (i.e. be considered an unfair contract term) - an issue which it appears some are willing to put to the test.

Matthew
N/A

Re: OT

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- Introduction of traffic prioritisation techniques to all broadband accounts.


And how does the things that some people are complaining about not fit into this clause that you quoted?

They have not said that you cannot download more then 15GB from usenet merely that if you do; anything over the 15GB is given a different priority, and also nowhere does it say you cannot use p2p but again it has been given a lower priority........ we may not like it but we were advised of it in the part of the new terms and conditions that you quoted and therefore could have not accepted them on the basis of that as because Plusnet had already said that their biggest problems were being caused by both p2p and usenet therefore logic may have dictated that those sevices were going to be hit the hardest, and that perhaps people that used both p2p and usenet predominantly should have taken some warning message from the "Introduction of traffic prioritisation techniques" part....... I suppose instead of that clause that you quoted Plusnet could just as easily written "we are dropping usenet binaries and blocking p2p".But they did'nt,and I suppose one has to decide how badly you need to use those and if you can put up with the prioritization or not

As for your comments regarding SUP I will agree with you to a certain extent..... but at the prices that Plusnet are charging customers for their accounts did you honestly expect that there would be no limits imposed when other isp's are charging double what Plusnet are for their "all you can eat" accounts and some of those are beginning to introduce restrictions.The general trend seems to be if you want to download as much as you like or get away from certain services being prioritized you need to be spending about £35 per month.and judging by the number of people complaining whose forum joining dates coincide with Plusnet dropping the prices of accounts drastically that would not seem to be a popular choice or else they would be still be with the "expensive" ISP's.

I know it is a person perogative to seek value for money.But if you do a search through the forums you will find a couple of post from myself posted soon after the price cuts were announced curious as to what the "sting in tail" was going to be........ I now know.
ceridwen
Grafter
Posts: 937
Registered: 14-10-2007

Re: OT

Quote
Quote
- Introduction of traffic prioritisation techniques to all broadband accounts.


And how does the things that some people are complaining about not fit into this clause that you quoted?


Degree - the level of throttling and the speeds than many are getting on P2P and Usenet (after the 15Gb) is far more than implied by traffic prioritisation, and in some cases is slow enough to be non-existent.

At the time PN were advising (for Premier acccounts at least) that this would be light management, and would in the main be unnoticed (and <10%), and many accepted the new T&Cs given that (flawed?) advice.

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but at the prices that Plusnet are charging customers for their accounts did you honestly expect that there would be no limits imposed


So PN mispriced their products and are now penalising customers for their mistake?

To be honest, it is not the changes that annoy me, but that PN implement changes without notice (despite claiming that they will give notice), and do not recognise that these changes are material changes to the service (and hence those who wish to move to another service because the PN changed service no longer meets their needs should not be penalised for doing so).

Matthew
N/A

Re: OT

Quote
Degree - the level of throttling and the speeds than many are getting on P2P and Usenet (after the 15Gb) is far more than implied by traffic prioritisation, and in some cases is slow enough to be non-existent.


I don't expect that Plusnet are going to be putting much effort into improving P2P as I suspect they would rather that did not excist. But as regards Usenet; have they not admitted that speeds are a lot lower than they would prefer, and are looking into it.......... in fact I think I have read on the forums this morning comments regarding Usenet speeds starting to come up.
shellsong
Grafter
Posts: 2,191
Registered: 03-08-2007

SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

Can't you lot start another post or agree a "topic" to go to if you wish to carry on this discussion-- I wouldn't mind joining in myself but...
... THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DO SO!

I seem to be unable to delete this post which is no longer relevant due to the split!
N/A

SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

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]... THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DO SO!


....... and the date you became a mod was?
N/A

SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

Split topics as it had become unrecognisable from the OP.
ceridwen
Grafter
Posts: 937
Registered: 14-10-2007

SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

Quote
Quote
Degree - the level of throttling and the speeds than many are getting on P2P and Usenet (after the 15Gb) is far more than implied by traffic prioritisation, and in some cases is slow enough to be non-existent.


I don't expect that Plusnet are going to be putting much effort into improving P2P as I suspect they would rather that did not excist. But as regards Usenet; have they not admitted that speeds are a lot lower than they would prefer, and are looking into it.......... in fact I think I have read on the forums this morning comments regarding Usenet speeds starting to come up.


What they actually admitted was that the Usenet speed were as intended but after due consideration (read complaints) decided it was a little on the slow side.

When I joined PN, they would discussed changes in advance (either here or with the usergroup), so the old PN would have discussed what was an acceptable speed for usenet in advance and have worked out a figure acceptable to both PN and the majority of customers rather than implement first and then fix weeks later. It was that sense that PN tried to tailor its packages to its customers (within obvious limits) which used to differentiate PN from the competition.

Concerning P2P, don't forget that we (Premier at least) pay for a 30:1 contended service. There is a reasonable expectation that even with traffic shaping your performance would not go beyond that of a 30:1 connection at full contention - i.e. 67Kbps on up to the 2Mb package, 134Kbps on the up to 4Mb, and 268Kbps on the up to 8Mb package. Those are not however the speeds achievable for P2P and Usenet (and we'll have to see if those speed can be managed on Usenet after PN's changes).

Matthew
N/A

SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

Quote
When I joined PN, they would discussed changes in advance (either here or with the usergroup),


Now I do agree 100% with you on that...... and my gut feeling is (and I could be very wrong here) that when they dropped the prices so drastically and had a sudden influx of very heavy users, because I am sure that they would have had some heavy users before; but at the higher prices could cope with those : a certain ammount of panic set in, and what we are witnessing is a "knee jerk" sort of reaction where procedures have needed to be put in place quickly, and are being fine tuned as they go along: I don't know perhaps I am being too optomistic in my belief that Plusnet will be able to ride this out and get back to how they were....... only time is going to tell I guess.
ceridwen
Grafter
Posts: 937
Registered: 14-10-2007

SUP Discussion - Split from Mod thread

It feels like they've be in a knee-jerk reaction since the sudden unexpected withdrawal of FUP at Easter, though...

Matthew