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Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

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Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

After over 6 months of rubbish LLU service, 3 months of having a ticket which has not resolved the issue and now also waiting over 3 weeks for a notification of a transfer back to IPstream I am at the end of my tether here.

Add to that I had another weekend of very bad speed and connectivity (which was lost at around 8.30pm last night and still wasn't back this morning) and no way of speaking to a human about the problem I have now completely lost faith in this company and now longer feel they are able to provide me with a suitable service.

Therefore I am now strongly considering cancelling so I can start afresh with a new ISP.

However I don't see why I should have to pay PN the deferred activation fee as the reason I am changing provders is that they are not able to provide a stable service or resolve the issues I have been having. Especially as I will have to pay, or defer, another activation fee with my next ISP. I don't see why I should be out of pocket for almost £100 just to change ISP.

So what is my legal standpoint in this situation? Can I just refuse to pay the deffered fee if I cancel (I have only been with PN since Feb this year) or, if I do have to pay, can I charge PN for the activation fee from my new ISP? :?
11 REPLIES
gofaster
Rising Star
Posts: 364
Thanks: 11
Registered: 01-08-2007

Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

I'm afraid that you are liable for the deferred activation charge. Plus, if you are on a 12 month contract, you are also liable for another 4 months fees.
On the other hand, PN have stated that no-one will lose out financially by being moved to LLU, so you would seem to stand a good chance of claiming back any activation fee that a new ISP charges.
It seems a shame to move at the very time that PlusNet (claim to) have solved the LLU disconnects...
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Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

im sorting this out too, only ive gone through 12 months so its just the deferred fee to pay, its worth it to get rid of in my mind, as the problems are on going, ive had connection drops today and we all know of the dns problems, i have zero confidence in the company now and dont want to wait and see what happens, i msure i could fight it by why bother, you should see the ticket responses i get, pn didnt even know i have been here over 12 month and tried to charge me the full £47 till i pointed it out.
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Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

It is a hassle to move at all, but nothing compared to the hassle of having an internet connection you are paying for that isn't up to scratch...

The thing is I never used to suffer from the LLU constant disconnects while these were happening to many others over the last couple of months. But since another change was made to my line a couple of weeks ago (as part of an ongoing attempt to fix my LLU connection) I'm now getting these regulary.

I could sit and wait for PN to move me back to Ipstream (3 weeks and counting) and see if that is better but after reading posts here it seems even that service is congested and slow.

Therefore I have concluded that PN are providing a sub-standard service and I am no longer willing to give them money for that.

Has anyone managed to get a refund from PN for the activation fee after moving ISp (of course I'm unlikely to get an answer here on that as those that have moved won't be coming back here...) :lol:
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Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

Doing so would be tricky tbh.

It's like buying a car on finance and paying for it over 5 years. Just because 2 years down the line you might not be able to drive anymore or the car is broken into and stolen you can't just turn around and tell them that youve bought a new car and dont want theirs anymore. They'd sort of laugh at you.

Although if you DO get around it then good luck to you Cheesy
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Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

How about if when you brought the car it ran fine for a few months then was recalled for some 'improvement' maintenace and after that the wheels fell off regulary, it crawled along at less than 5mph and every time you tried to contact the garage they ignored you? :lol:
blaze30682
Grafter
Posts: 113
Registered: 03-08-2007

Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

Quote
Doing so would be tricky tbh.

It's like buying a car on finance and paying for it over 5 years. Just because 2 years down the line you might not be able to drive anymore or the car is broken into and stolen you can't just turn around and tell them that youve bought a new car and dont want theirs anymore. They'd sort of laugh at you.

Although if you DO get around it then good luck to you Cheesy


if plusnet was a car this would be true , but its not.

its a service u are paying for.

i made a post link to ispa, which plusnet are member of and in soing so they agreed to abid by the ispa rules.

do a seach of my user name and if it hasnt been deleted have a read see if you understand it better than i do.
blaze30682
Grafter
Posts: 113
Registered: 03-08-2007

Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

http://www.ispa.org.uk/about_us/page_16.html#8

here it is, went and found it save u the agro Smiley
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Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

Thanks Blaze, I did what you suggested and found it through a search anyways Tongue

TBH I've had a quick scan through the mumbo-jumbo there and couldn't directly see anything relevant to this. It appears a lot of the guidelines there relate to how an ISP displays it's information rather than treats it's customers and the servive it provides (although those who see more please correct me).

I called up PN this afternoon and managed to get through after only 25 mins (is that a record?) and was told that I would have to raise a cancellation ticket stating that because of my problems I didn't want to pay the fee. It would then be read by 'the person who can make those decisions' and I would be informed either way.

TBH I don't hold out much hope but will go through this motion anyway and report back here with how I get on...
blaze30682
Grafter
Posts: 113
Registered: 03-08-2007

Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

just thought , could also try citizens advice, they maybe able to point you in right direction.
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Buying & Selling Services

FYI, you can easily follow this:

"Buying and selling services
Services you commission from someone else are governed by a set of similar rules to the goods you buy. All services must be:
• carried out with a level of skill and care that can reasonably be expected
• finished within a reasonable time period, or within the time period specifically agreed
• at the agreed cost or, if no cost was agreed, at a reasonable cost.
If services do not come up to scratch for one of the reasons defined above, you have the right to cancel the contract or refuse to pay some or all of the contract value. You may also seek compensation through the courts.
Reasonable skill and care
This criterion is similar to that of goods being 'fit for the purpose'. A plumber should be skilled enough to leave you with pipework that doesn't leak, and a conveyancer should carry out the standard Land Registry checks before completing a property deal on your behalf.
Reasonable time period
It is always wise to agree in writing a time period for work to be completed. If you do not do so, the law says that the person providing the service should finish the work within a reasonable amount of time. In order to work out what a reasonable period of time is, you may have to ask other suppliers of the same service how long they would take. If the work is not finished by the date specified in your agreement, or in a reasonable amount of time, you may be within your rights to cancel the rest of the contract and pay for only the work so far completed. But as ever, don't take any steps before taking legal advice.
Reasonable cost
Always, always, agree a cost for services. This applies especially for costly work you want done on your home - a minefield for most householders - and for some professional services where there can be hidden costs.
A reputable service-supplier will give you first an 'estimate' of the cost — an educated guess at the rough cost. When you have made decisions on all the details of the service, ask for a firm 'quotation'. The supplier cannot expect you to pay more than the quotation unless you specifically agree before the extra cost was incurred. The quotation will form part of your contract with the service-supplier.
If you do not have a written agreement on how much you will be charged for the work, the law says you can only be charged a reasonable amount. In order to find out what is a reasonable amount, you will need to seek estimates from other tradesmen who supply the same service in your local area.
Goods offered as part of a service
In some situations a supplier of a service may also source materials or other goods on your behalf, for example, a builder may source bricks and cement, and a plumber may acquire pipework, a boiler and radiators when putting in central heating for you.
As for the purchase of other goods, you can expect the goods offered to you as part of the service to be fit for the purpose, of satisfactory quality, as described and safe to use. Because in this case, your contract is with the supplier of the service, it is this person who is liable if something isn't right, and not the shopkeeper who originally sold the goods.
Problems with services
When entering into a contract with someone to supply a service (for example, a solicitor, an estate agent, a builder, plumber or any other tradesman), choose someone from the outset who has a good reputation. Ask friends and relatives for personal recommendations, and check whether the supplier you choose is a member of a professional organisation.
If a service has been supplied that is not up to scratch, you may ask for compensation from the supplier (perhaps in the form of a reduction in the overall cost), or for the unacceptable parts of the work to be repaired or re-done.
If something goes wrong and you fail to get a sensible response from the person who supplied you with the service, you should seek guidance from the relevant professional organisation. They may have a conciliation service in which you and the supplier in question would try to come to an agreement. If you fail to do so, then you may seek either 'arbitration' or to make a claim in the Small Claims Court (but not both).
Some professional organisations also run schemes to compensate customers if one of their members goes into bankruptcy and cannot honour their contract."
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Rights on refusing deferred fee refund after bad LLU service

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if plusnet was a car this would be true , but its not.

its a service u are paying for.


No.

The monthly charge is a fee for your service, the Activation charge was simply a one-off fee to get BT to connect your telephone line to a broadband service.

If BT did their part and you were able to sync to a broadband exchange then technically the activation was completed and needed to be paid for.