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Pricing Bands

Marteknet
Grafter
Posts: 577
Registered: 13-10-2007

Pricing Bands

Force9's marketing and advertising strategy seems to be hyping the new higher speeds at no extra cost to customers.

While this is great news for customers who are fortunate to be able to use these new speeds, what about people who through no fault of their own find that they can not make use of the new faster internet access.

I have found that due to the BT line my maximum speed is only 1M, despite there being a second line in to the house that will happily run at 2M.

Are customers in this position likely to see a reduction in their costs, after all they are paying the same as others who have a superior service. Will Force9 be introducing new pricing bands to cover this situation?
20 REPLIES
N/A

Pricing Bands

I can see why you think that because your on 1MB you should pay less than a user who is on 2MB. I think its a tricky one :shock:

But the internet doesn't work like that, the suppliers charge for services and usage/capacity. I think F9 should make it clearer that they are charging for the services you have and the amount of data you can transfer each month / throughput.

But they did back out of setting limits so maybe they should have different pricing plans that seperate usage / speed so that a user can choose their speed and cap limit. Because it is daft charging the same, as a 2mb customer could download twice the data of a 1mb customer (in a perfect world) but both 1mb and 2mb customers have the same caps... or do they?

Evil (still waiting for regrade that will probably never happen) :twisted:
Marteknet
Grafter
Posts: 577
Registered: 13-10-2007

Pricing Bands

Quote
I can see why you think that because your on 1MB you should pay less than a user who is on 2MB. I think its a tricky one :shock:


If it's tricky now what happens when (if ever) 8M becomes the norm?

This issue WILL have to be addressed, after all we are paying for a service and if customers receive less then surely they should pay less.

Besides the issue of cost, the internet is evolving and has more and more rich content that requites higher and higher bandwidth more speed is needed to utilized this new content, people with slow speed connections will not be able to experience the new stuff in the way it was intended to be seen.
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Pricing Bands

So true...... I know that 8mb is going to cost more £50 or so, but thats UPTO 8mb so you might only get 5mb but be paying for 8mb...... and if regrades are anything to go by then 8mb is well maybe the next millenia plus or minus a few decades :lol:
Marteknet
Grafter
Posts: 577
Registered: 13-10-2007

Pricing Bands

Force9 ditto:

A strong wind (the wind of change maybe), Unfortunately it's not blowing with me but against me thus holding me back.
Cry
N/A

Pricing Bands

I seem to recall many moons ago when Ian was still with us that the reason prices changed was something to do with the BT price structure. At the end of last year or the beginning of this, BT moved from a price sturcture which charged by the speed of the connection to a system whereby data transfer was charged, which allowed F9 and other isp's to lower their prices for the higher speeds. I would imagine the 1% of people who are maxing out the connection 24/7 and who the FUP was to be aimed at are using the data transfer allowance that those of us on the lower of the scale are using thus balancing it out slightly.

Maybe someone from the realms of CS could clarify?

Mark
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Pricing Bands

Hi,

Mark remember's correctly, last year we moved over to Capacity Based Charging (CBC) with BT Wholesale.

How this works is we pay a fixed fee for your ADSL circuit of £8.40+VAT per month for each line on IPStream Home and £12.40+VAT per month for each line on IPStream Office.

These prices are same regardless of the sync speed, so IPStream Home 500 costs the same as IPStream Home 2000.

This is the reason why we offer up to 2Mbps for £21.99.

The biggest cost to us instead of the speed is the central pipe capacity. A 622Mbps central pipe costs about £1.7m per year. We currently have 17 active 155Mbps segments across 5 622 central pipes (each 622 is split into 4 155Mbps segments that can be activated one at a time) costing over £7m per year.

As you can see from the the biggest cost driver is the number of central pipes we require, and the number of pipes needed is dictated by customer usage and in particular the peak time usage.
Marteknet
Grafter
Posts: 577
Registered: 13-10-2007

Pricing Bands

Hello Dave.

Thanks for the info but that doesn't really answer my original question, will prices drop for those on a slow connection?

slower speeds = potentially less bandwidth over any given period of time. I have a business account and as any businessman will tell you time is money. so why are business accounts on a slow connection paying the same as those that enjoy 2M speeds.
quelquod
Rising Star
Posts: 514
Thanks: 49
Registered: 31-07-2007

Pricing Bands

But that's not really a valid argument Martek.

My line recently got upgraded from 512k to 2M and it really hasn't affected my useage at all. I still do the same amount of email and browsing because the 512k was actually quite fast enough most of the time. All that's happened is that things download faster, not that I download more.

Although you're right that a lower bandwidth means a lower total capacity I think that few people actually get anywhere near the actual capacity of their connection.
Democracy - 3 wolves and a lamb voting about what to have for lunch!
Marteknet
Grafter
Posts: 577
Registered: 13-10-2007

Pricing Bands

Quote
But that's not really a valid argument Martek.


I beg to differ, I consider it a very valid argument. If it takes twice as long to download any given item on 1M as it would on 2M then it's taking up twice my time, remember I have a teleworker account at Force9's insistence. To me time is money. Time is far to valuable to waste. I am paying the full cost, the same as someone on 2M, It's a business account, I expect to be able to use the service to the full, Yes that means 2M to me, as that's what Force9 are advertising for the package I have with them.

Its very simple really. There is an other line into the building that runs at 2M, I have checked the line length from the exchange and both lines are the same. I know that 2M is possible here, I am paying for 2M and I want to be able to use it.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Pricing Bands

When the broadband packages were originally designed we created them with the following in mind.

£21.99 Premier was based on a 512kbps service with appropriate usage for a 512 line
£29.99 Premier was based on a 1Mps service with appropriate usage for a 1Mbps line
£39.99 Premier was based on a 2Mps service with appropriate usage for a 2Mbps line

With the advent of CBC and the bulk speed regrade programme and MaxDSL round the corner we've essentiall said OK let's give everyone the maximum speed their line can support (up to 2Mbps now, faster speeds later) for free, but the budget usage with each account stays the same. So the three Premier accounts become

£21.99 Premier up to 2Mbps with the same budgeted usage patterns as the old 512kbps Premier
£29.99 Premier up to 4Mbps with the same budgeted usage patterns as the old 1Mps Premier
£39.99 Premier up to 8Mbps with the same budgeted usage patterns as the old 2Mps Premier

As you slower speeds = potentially less bandwidth over any given period of time, but the £21.99 Premier account is still budgeted the same amount of bandwidth as it was when only 512 was available at that price.

The bulk speed regrade programme has given most customers a two or four fold increase in speed, but it hasn't given them a two or four fold increase in usage. That stays the same.
Marteknet
Grafter
Posts: 577
Registered: 13-10-2007

Pricing Bands

Thanks for the Info Dave.

You say
Quote
but the £21.99 Premier account is still budgeted the same amount of bandwidth as it was when only 512 was available at that price.


Yes this may be so but as theadamsons said

Quote
Although you're right that a lower bandwidth means a lower total capacity I think that few people actually get anywhere near the actual capacity of their connection.


This implies that I will be able to download more in any time period and still be within my budgeted bandwidth, But having said that, please remember I opened this post with the intention of pointing out the problem people such as myself have, that we will not be able to enjoy all the benefits the new faster speeds can provide!, not so much as to comment just on bandwidth usage.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Pricing Bands

Sure, I understand and it would be great if all our customers could get 2Mbps or even faster, but unfortunately there are limitations on the current technologies.

Not quite the same but where I live I can't get Channel 5 (apart from via Sky), can't get cable, can't get Freeview, and can't get digital radio.

ADSL 2+ and VDSL are the technologies that will mean you can see a faster speed. Hopefully we'll see more of these next year.

From the ISP's point of view it costs no more for us to provide a customer with a 2Mbps service as it does for 1Mbps or 512kbps. Hence why we wish everyone could get 2Mbps.
Marteknet
Grafter
Posts: 577
Registered: 13-10-2007

Pricing Bands

Quote
we wish everyone could get 2Mbps.


Me too. What I am finding hard to accept is the fact that there is a second line in to the house that enjoys a 2M trouble free connection. It terminates about 5 meters from the actual place I am now sitting while answering your post. This second line goes to the same connection box that is set into the path about 30 yards from the house, both lines are the same distance from the exchange. Why should one be able to run at 2M and the other only 1M.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Pricing Bands

Do you know what the line stats are on each line?

Even if the lines are the same length and take the same route back to the exchange they may be made of different grade copper or one line may have lots of joints in it.

If the line stats look good I can try a manual regrade for you, but it would be interesting to see how they compare.