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Poor lines - any hope?

millerabode
Dabbler
Posts: 21
Registered: 10-08-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

Courtesy of poor line quality I'm currently stuck on 512k (might be able to get 1Mb) and I assume others are in the same 'minority' situation. Anyone know if this will get addressed by BT at any time as others get their bandwidth 'upped' or do I need to move house! Sad
17 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

The only way to get a faster speed in the next few years is to move house Smiley

I'm in a similar position 62dB line atten & 10dB SNR so I may be stuck on 512K speeds for some time. Sad Cry
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,322
Registered: 01-08-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

If you have got a good SNR, then there is the possibility of faster speeds with an LLU provider.

Many LLU providers, or at least the ones I have seen, use the SNR to calculate your speed.

i.e. I have a high attenuation (56db), but my SNR is 21db (and was 27/28db on 512k).

With ADSL equipment becoming more sensitive, i.e. they can pick up a much quieter signal, then it is the quality of this signal that allows for faster speeds, rather than how powerful the signal is.

for every doubling in speed, allow for about a 6db drop in SNR - and a minimum should be around 8-10db with a decent router.

I have seen people with very similar line stats to myself obtain 3.5 - 4mb speeds with LLU. The SNR drops down to about 7/8db and many state that their connection is solid at that. I would always try and aim for 10db minimum to be sure - but it shows that these speeds are at least possible with the current technology.

The reason BT still go by the attenuation figures is to ensure a minimum level of complaints. They have to support a MASSIVE number of lines compared to LLU providers, many of which will have old ADSL modems connected to them, or will have very poor stats. Allowing higher speeds to people with lower quality lines will just see a massive jump in support requests.

The advent of maxDSL with BT should in theory bring with it faster speeds to lines that can handle it - so until then we are governed by BT's limits, or we move to an LLU provider.
millerabode
Dabbler
Posts: 21
Registered: 10-08-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

At 512k I have an attenuation of 56dB and SNR 16.5 - might be able to squeeze 1Mb (?) but won't go faster
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

1Mb is well within reach with those figures. The limit is 60dB hence why I may be stuck on 512K.
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,322
Registered: 01-08-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

EDIT: this is at the OP, not Peter as his line stats are outside the limits for 1mb on BT. The position of my response made it look like Peter could get 1mb, which is incorrect.

--------------------------------------

You should be able to get 1mb on the BT limits, and looking at your SNR, it seems that you may be stuck at that even with an LLU provider.

Some people on LLU services have said that they can sustain a steady connection at 4db SNR, but they must be extremely lucky. A SNR at that level will usually see frequent disconnects and drop outs.

I would think that 1mb is your limit for now though.

Sorry. Sad
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

Hi,

Just to add to the discussion there are two types of technology that will help, both are currently in trial, or about to be in trial, so probably a way off being available to everyone. The first is ADSL2+. While this can offer a lot faster speeds, up to 24Mbps it can also extend the reach of speeds lower down the scale, so if you can only get 512 with ADSL, ADSL2+ might allow 1 or 2Mbps.

The other technology is VDSL, currently about to start trialling as FTTC or Fibre to the cabinet. This as the name suggests runs fibre to the local green cabinet which has a mini DSLAM installed and reduces the length of the copper run from maybe 5 or 6 miles in the extreme cases down to maybe a mile at most in most cases and thus increase the ADSL speed.
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,322
Registered: 01-08-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

Quote
The other technology is VDSL, currently about to start trialling as FTTC or Fibre to the cabinet. This as the name suggests runs fibre to the local green cabinet which has a mini DSLAM installed and reduces the length of the copper run from maybe 5 or 6 miles in the extreme cases down to maybe a mile at most in most cases and thus increase the ADSL speed.


It would seem that in order for the UK to match the speeds of other countries, this will have to be the way forward. This could bring 8mb or beyond to almost everyone.

However it will also be very, very, expensive to roll out en mass - my guess would be that this technology will be trialed in order to get ADSL to remote areas, and the government would need to subsidise a larger roll out.

I think it will take heavy economic pressure to force the government to undertake such a task, and BT are unlikely to undertake this on their own as the costs will be massive.

It certainly bodes well for the future either way!
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

Unfortuneatly with my distance from the exchange (about 7KMs) and probably the OP as well, ADSL2/2+ will not make any difference to what speeds I can get. If i remember beyong 5KM ADSL & ADSL2+ acheive the same speeds. Like most technologies they work better nearer the exchange and drop off the further away you are. ADSL2+ may extend current speeds by another 500-> 600 meters but at my distance it will have little affect.

VDSL is currently the only way I am likely to get 2Mbs+ speeds, but I suspect a general rollout/upgrade policy is likely to be 3 or 4 years off (assuming BT ot another provider actually decides it's worth doingt). It will be implemented first in areas where broadband is currently not possible with current technology (which is where the trials are) . It also needs a full network of fibre to each cabinet which is very costly and possible a cost BT may be unable or unwilling to spend.
LiamM
Grafter
Posts: 5,636
Registered: 12-08-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

Interestingly, when a BT engineer came to install a new line for me he said that BT made more money out of the scrap metal than it cost to replace a core network route to fibre.
vic_newey
Grafter
Posts: 802
Thanks: 2
Registered: 30-07-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

Is satelite internet the answer ? I know that skydsl offers a good range of up to 16,000 Kbps,for those of us who have little hope of a BT line upgrade

loss of signal & lag can still a problem sadly because its all down to your ISP & their system & of course all users share the satelite bandwidth.
Anyone know anything or know anyone using this system ?
N/A

Poor lines - any hope?

If it's anything like my Sky Digital satellite, then I dont wanna go near it Cheesy

Terrible reliability. Sad
vic_newey
Grafter
Posts: 802
Thanks: 2
Registered: 30-07-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

you mean you don't want to go near the satelite ? Tongue Tongue
N/A

Poor lines - any hope?

<sarcasm>Well, if mobile phones give you brain cancer, I dunno what a 3 foot minidish can do... Tongue</sarcasm>

You know what I mean Tongue
vic_newey
Grafter
Posts: 802
Thanks: 2
Registered: 30-07-2007

Poor lines - any hope?

Quote
<sarcasm>Well, if mobile phones give you brain cancer, I dunno what a 3 foot minidish can do... Tongue</sarcasm>

You know what I mean Tongue


No sarcasm intended ,just humour, nothing more, are you into roadrage ? Tongue