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Ping + Hamachi VPN

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Ping + Hamachi VPN

Hi,

I have been trying to set up Hamachi (a VPN - www.hamachi.cc) on a friend's PC so he can join my existing Hamachi network for LAN gaming.

His ISP is PlusNet, but the rest of us use other ISPs (btw - I pay for a PlusNet account at my girlfriend's house, which is the account I am logged into now in order to post this message - my ISP at home is not PlusNet)

We have all configured port forwarding & firewalls etc. and within Hamachi all lights are green - this means all connections are direct p2p tunnels and no-one is relayed via some other server.

However, while most of us get ping responce times of about 50ms using each other's virtual IPs as assigned by Hamachi, any ping to or from my friend who uses PlusNet has a responce time of about 650 - 700ms! This means he cannot join in on our games Sad

If I simply ping the external IP address of his router I get a responce time of about 50ms. It's only when I send ping requests wrapped in a UDP packet straight to his Hamachi PC that we find this lag.

Searching these forums for traffic shaping, all I could find was info on the Gold, Silver and Bronze categories... but this to me suggested that speeds only got throttled when significant amounts of data were sent and received - not merely a few ping requests over the course of a half-hour trouble shooting session! and even then, VPN sits in the Silver category and even the throttled speed should be sufficient for some of the older games we play.

Why is his VPN ping so high?

Thanks,
Martin.
22 REPLIES
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

Hi Martin.

Welcome to the forums.

Could you post the ports which this client uses. Its not one which I am familiar with and if the ports are identified perhaps someone from Networks can advise further.

Thanks.
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

Actually having done a wee bit of digging I can see where the potential issue may lie.

Hamanchi is not a vpn client in the true sense but more like a P2P application. As such and due to the traffic management it will be subject to shaping, especially at peak times.

This does not effect normal or standard VPN's, such as those used by businesses etc.

However pings within the range which you have reported seem a bit high tbh. Can you tell us what the pings are like during off peak hours?

If you can give that info I'll see if some one from PN can advise further.
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

This morning, between 10am and noon, ping times have been around 300ms.


Hamachi connects to a central server on ports 12975 and 32976
using TCP.

We opted to used a fixed UDP port and switch off the UPnP option. We are using UDP port 30462 (this was selected utterly at random).

Am I right in thinking that traffic shaping only starts to take effect if we're transfering fairly large amounts of data? If, like yesterday evening, we do nothing more than simply connect to the Hamachi network such that the data transfered is just some p2p handshaking should we not expect 50ms pings?

Thanks for your help.
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

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If, like yesterday evening, we do nothing more than simply connect to the Hamachi network such that the data transfered is just some p2p handshaking should we not expect 50ms pings?


AFAIK If the traffic is classified as P2P (Bronze Traffic) then it will managed by the Ellacoyas no matter how little data you put accross.
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

I'm not familiar with the Ellacoyas. What effect does it have on p2p traffic?
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

It is the traffic management system (Hardware & Software) PN have in place to prioritise types of traffic.

This gives high priority to VoIP, Gameing etc traffic that requires low latency, and lower priority to P2P.

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/network/broadband_bandwidth_usage.shtml#graph3
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

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However pings within the range which you have reported seem a bit high tbh.

Anyone got further thoughts on this?


Also, how *exactly* is peer-to-peer defined/detected? I mean, when there are only two users (my friend who is using PlusNet and myself) connected to our private p2p network how is that different to the two of us communicating using UDP on a client-server network?

Sure, if he has opened something like 50 to 100 concurrent IP sessions and is transfering, say, 200kbps down / 20kbps up then it's pretty clear he's using something like torrent software and is putting a strain on the network. As a result his connection speeds will get throttled... but that is not the case so what are we doing that is being detected by the traffic shaping system?
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

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Also, how *exactly* is peer-to-peer defined/detected?


I'm not sure if this will help explain but I found it useful:-

http://www.ellacoya.com/products/IPServiceControlSystem.pdf
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

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how *exactly* is peer-to-peer defined/detected?


Hi there,

Every application, passing accross the network, has a signature. The Ellacoya's are updated with these signatures and thus each traffic type is identified and managed accordingly.

P2P apps are the biggest drain on any ISP's resources, especially at peak times, therefore it is these types of application which will be managed and affected the most.

Your ping times of 300 ms during off peak and 650 - 700 during peak are not good.

Raise a ticket on your account, outlining what has been discussed here, and post the ticket id and I'll see if someone from Comms can pick it up and get it looked into a bit further.
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

cheers guys you've helped me out! using speedtest.net i was getting pings of 400ms+, this topic made me think, so i uninstalled hamachi, and now get 50ms and below! hmmm interesting!
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

Glad you found it useful jt1985, but to clarify I think that Matt and I are experiancing a different problem - even with Hamachi installed and running, Matt is still able to ping internet servers such as google with a 36ms responce. It is only when he tries to ping one of the other users over our Hamachi virtual network that his ping time suffers.


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Every application, passing accross the network, has a signature.

P2P is catagorised as Bronze traffic because it is almost always used for relentless, bandwidth intensive file transfer. Although VPNs can be used for file transfer they have been catagorised as Silver traffic because this kind of bandwidth intensive activity is much less common.

Since Hamachi uses p2p for the sole purpose of providing VPN functionality, would it be unreasonable to suggest that The Ellacoyas are updated to catagorise Hamachi traffic as Silver and not Bronze?
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

I've raised a question (ID: 20442045) describing the situation.
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

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Since Hamachi uses p2p for the sole purpose of providing VPN functionality,


Hi there,

Whilst I understand where you are coming from, a couple of issues exist here.

Firstly Hamachi is not a true VPN client and is widely used as a P2P app. This may not be the case in your circumstances but it does apply to many other people.

Secondly, and a question which I failed to ask previously, what account is your friend using?

If it is not a PAYG or Premier account then shaping will have more of an impact. What type of account is involved here?
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Ping + Hamachi VPN

Hello again,
Cheers for all your support on this Smiley - it really is appreciated!


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what account is your friend using?
"PlusNet Broadband Plus up to 8Mb" (14.99 / month)


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Hamachi is ... widely used as a P2P app
As in constant file transfer?... fair enough, I wasn't aware of that.


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Your ping times of 300 ms during off peak and 650 - 700 during peak are not good.
Just so I can get a better mental picture of what to expect...
Once any issues here are resolved, what sort of ping time might we expect during typical peak hours? And would the data rate for this traffic be limited at 100kbps?