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OK - an open question to PN

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OK - an open question to PN

we;ve all seen Plusnet take a huge dive quality wise, usage cap wise etc etc.

My questions to plusnet customer services. Is it worth staying? Are customers going to be treated properly?

Nildram and others are offering 40gb and more per month at peak time. Plusnet's is 10gb before shaping. Is plusnet's cap going to remain at a really paltry 10-15gb or are we going to see proper levels restored?

If you can't answer affirmatively to the above then most of us should leave.

thanks
77 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,364
Thanks: 15
Registered: 06-04-2007

OK - an open question to PN

How many hours/day do Nildram class as Peak Time?

What hours of the day are Peak Time?

SW.
--
3Mb FTTC
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
N/A

OK - an open question to PN

hi

i think peak hours 8am till midnight...
N/A

OK - an open question to PN

Quote
we;ve all seen Plusnet take a huge dive quality wise, usage cap wise etc etc.


Not here. Usage wise, i can now actually download more than i could before without worrying about it and my pings are fine.

Quote
Nildram and others are offering 40gb and more per month at peak time. Plusnet's is 10gb before shaping. Is plusnet's cap going to remain at a really paltry 10-15gb or are we going to see proper levels restored?


Nildram's peak time is 8am-midnight, that would mean my usage would be crippled and i wouldn't be able to download what I do while i'm at work. IE- (for me) it Nildram would be a service that could not meet my needs while P'Nets does. Zen is another spoken about provider that for me would mean the same.

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If you can't answer affirmatively to the above then most of us should leave.


"Most of us" Huh If the service doesn't meet the needs that you require for a broadband provider then maybe you shoud leave and find one that does. As for me, it meets them perfectly, in the future if they don't then I might leave to find one that does, but for now it's fine for me.
N/A

OK - an open question to PN

id be happy with 8am to midnight. Im at work all day so dont use it till 7pm. Will PN please respond to this one?
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OK - an open question to PN

This is something I am trying to find out myself.

Although Nildram offer higher usage allowances I have heard words from distant friends reporting problems with Nildram and the service not being all as it seems.

I still think that the deal we have from Plusnet is reasonable ( even if I do think that Plusnet at times wish to try and get rid of its longest serving users ). Although the peak time is short and the usage ok'ish perhaps Plusnet could adopt a policy as another provider does which is not to include the upstream traffic in your usage allowance.

Hmm, I dont know but I think that perhaps in the future once LLU has settled in properly Plusnet may have extra capacity with which they can change and re-adjust the usage levels.

Regards,
sputty
Grafter
Posts: 43
Registered: 02-09-2007

OK - an open question to PN

Nildrams Peak hours are 08:00 - 00:00, so less time "On peak" compaired to PlusNet

Nildram have a 50GB fair use quota (during peak hours), use as much as you like off peak.

If you only use 30GB one month it will carry over 20GB to the next but and there is no throttling (Nildram fair usage Policy), so you can use what you want at your line speed.

I personally think this is more than genorous for most people, as again downloads can be scheduled off peak. I personally don't use P2P but I do use FTP.

One of my accounts should complete its migration to nildram tomorrow, I will let you know how green the grass really is.

JV
N/A

OK - an open question to PN

still no reply from plusnet.

Im happy to pay more for more usage allowance between 4pm to midnight. Plusnet arent offering me the right product.
N/A

OK - an open question to PN

Quote
If you can't answer affirmatively to the above then most of us should leave.


Quote
"Most of us" Huh If the service doesn't meet the needs that you require for a broadband provider then maybe you shoud leave and find one that does. As for me, it meets them perfectly, in the future if they don't then I might leave to find one that does, but for now it's fine for me.


Ah ha. The great "I'm all right Jack attitude!

Remember though "mourby" that what goes around generally comes around - eventually :-)
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

OK - an open question to PN

Hi,

Your comparison is rather simplistic at best and does not really stand up when you look deeper into it.

An ISP's main costs come from two areas, the BT port costs and the central pipes. The port costs £8.40 per month and a 622Mbps central costs £1,496,760.00 per year. You can see the prices here.

The number of pipes required is dictated by usage and in particular the peak time usage. By its nature the peak time high is always going to be higher than the off peak levels, and it's this figure that will be used in governing the central pipe capacity.

With a central pipe operating flat out you could download

622 / 8 * 60 * 60 *24 * 365 / 1000 = 2,451,924GB per year.

If you only base your costing around a 16 hour period of the day then the total amount for peak is 1,634,616GB. Which then works out at £1,496,760.00/1,634,616 = 91.57p per GB.

That of course assumes that the pipes are running flat out the whole time during your peak period. In order to do that the only way to avoid all your customers seeing massive packet loss and ping spikes across any and all protocols is with traffic management. If you have no traffic management in place then you will start seeing problems as the pipes start to get towards that 90% utilisation mark simply because of how they are constructed. So without the traffic management add at least an extra 10% to your per GB cost because you can't operate above 90% utilisation without your customers seeing problems. Taking you to to about £1.01 per GB

So for any customer using 50GB in a month at peak time will have a base line cost (including VAT) of

(£1.01 * 50 + £8.40) * 1.175 = £69.21

Remember you will also need to add in building and infrastructure costs, staff, etc. etc. which means you are unlikely to see any change out of £75 per month for someone using 50GB at peak.

Is that really a sustainable business model to have?

How many light users do you need to offset the cost of a heavy user? In he marketplace that broadband fits in offering a product that has the potential to lose you so much money is suicidal.

The usage allowances we have set are based around our wholesale costing. Plug those figures into the equations and see what results you get. The products we have built are based around the costings that we see. A £21.99 account is based around a peak time usage figure of 15GB per month. The simple truth is that if you want to use more than that at peak time then you need to pay more for it, hence why we have the Premier option 2 and 3 accounts with higher peak time allowances for a higher monthly fee. If you want to use more than 15GB per month I would highly recommend taking a look at upgrading to one of those 2 products as that will better fit the needs of someone wanting to use more usage at peak time than Premier Option 1.

We don't shy away from telling you what things costs, if the costs meant that we could offer 50GB at peak for £21.99 we would, but if we did we'd be losing money hand over fist and be out of business in double quick time.

At some point in the future a wholesale price cut is likely to happen and at that point as we've said many times before we will then be able to re-evaluate the usage allowances, but whatever happens we can only provide allowances that are sustainable and fit in with our costings.

If other ISP's want to operate products as loss leaders or don't see how much they could end up losing, that's their choice, but not the way PlusNet operates.
N/A

OK - an open question to PN

Quote
Nildrams Peak hours are 08:00 - 00:00, so less time "On peak" compaired to PlusNet

Plusnets peak times are 16:00 - 00:00.. thats more time "On peak" compared to PlusNet (assuming its not PAYG).

Quote
The great "I'm all right Jack attitude!

Well, yes and no. Thats the whole point of choice. You arrange your gas supplier and find a few months later the prices have increased by 50% you have the CHOICE to go elsewhere. Some people will stay, some people wont. In the same way that at the moment, if i moved across to Zen or Nildram I would be forced to reduce my usage for the hours that I use. Although I'd love to know why you've classed me as a "im alright jack" and not the original poster as "im not alright jane". The fact that the service he currently has does not meet his needs does NOT mean that everyone (or.. "most" as it was put) should leave.

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Im happy to pay more for more usage allowance between 4pm to midnight.

That's why they have Options 1, 2 and 3. Although they may again not be suitable.
N/A

OK - an open question to PN

Quote
Hi,

Your comparison is rather simplistic at best and does not really stand up when you look deeper into it.

An ISP's main costs come from two areas, the BT port costs and the central pipes. The port costs £8.40 per month and a 622Mbps central costs £1,496,760.00 per year. You can see the prices here.

The number of pipes required is dictated by usage and in particular the peak time usage. By its nature the peak time high is always going to be higher than the off peak levels, and it's this figure that will be used in governing the central pipe capacity.

With a central pipe operating flat out you could download

622 / 8 * 60 * 60 *24 * 365 / 1000 = 2,451,924GB per year.

If you only base your costing around a 16 hour period of the day then the total amount for peak is 1,634,616GB. Which then works out at £1,496,760.00/1,634,616 = 91.57p per GB.

That of course assumes that the pipes are running flat out the whole time during your peak period. In order to do that the only way to avoid all your customers seeing massive packet loss and ping spikes across any and all protocols is with traffic management. If you have no traffic management in place then you will start seeing problems as the pipes start to get towards that 90% utilisation mark simply because of how they are constructed. So without the traffic management add at least an extra 10% to your per GB cost because you can't operate above 90% utilisation without your customers seeing problems. Taking you to to about £1.01 per GB

So for any customer using 50GB in a month at peak time will have a base line cost (including VAT) of

(£1.01 * 50 + £8.40) * 1.175 = £69.21

Remember you will also need to add in building and infrastructure costs, staff, etc. etc. which means you are unlikely to see any change out of £75 per month for someone using 50GB at peak.

Is that really a sustainable business model to have?

How many light users do you need to offset the cost of a heavy user? In he marketplace that broadband fits in offering a product that has the potential to lose you so much money is suicidal.

The usage allowances we have set are based around our wholesale costing. Plug those figures into the equations and see what results you get. The products we have built are based around the costings that we see. A £21.99 account is based around a peak time usage figure of 15GB per month. The simple truth is that if you want to use more than that at peak time then you need to pay more for it, hence why we have the Premier option 2 and 3 accounts with higher peak time allowances for a higher monthly fee. If you want to use more than 15GB per month I would highly recommend taking a look at upgrading to one of those 2 products as that will better fit the needs of someone wanting to use more usage at peak time than Premier Option 1.

We don't shy away from telling you what things costs, if the costs meant that we could offer 50GB at peak for £21.99 we would, but if we did we'd be losing money hand over fist and be out of business in double quick time.

At some point in the future a wholesale price cut is likely to happen and at that point as we've said many times before we will then be able to re-evaluate the usage allowances, but whatever happens we can only provide allowances that are sustainable and fit in with our costings.

If other ISP's want to operate products as loss leaders or don't see how much they could end up losing, that's their choice, but not the way PlusNet operates.


I emailed nildram and they said they had no plans to reduce their quotas for doanloads. Mind you. plusnet said that 12 months ago too - so all isps are liars or ptential liars.

Can you actually answer the questions Ive posed and state whether plusnet will increase their quotas at anytime or are we stuck with this (or further reduced) levels permanently?

regards
N/A

OK - an open question to PN

Quote
Nildrams Peak hours are 08:00 - 00:00, so less time "On peak" compaired to PlusNet

Nildram have a 50GB fair use quota (during peak hours), use as much as you like off peak.
JV


Hm, JV: 08:00 --> 00:00 is 16 hours peak time. Plusnet is 16:00 --> 00:00 which is 8...

But as others have pointed out alot of us work 8 - 8 so only use the net during PN's peak time.
sputty
Grafter
Posts: 43
Registered: 02-09-2007

OK - an open question to PN

It was a typo TBH, nice to see the nit pickers are still about Cheesy

Only kidding, I think you all know what I was trying to say, I was trying not to be negative towards either ISP, just offering both sides of the coin.

As I said I will let you know if the grass is greener.

I would like to also add, I would gladly bring my main account back to Plusnet if they sort out the latency problems and re-think the throttling and contract periods, also offer 30day contracts

I only left because I wanted to swap to a business account but they wanted another 12 month contract (Not a chance tbh), I'm going to Nildram and paying for their Business 8Mb @ approx £60 per month, so money is not the problem.

If they do a major rethink of how they do things, I will come back.

JV
N/A

OK - an open question to PN

Quote
Quote
Nildrams Peak hours are 08:00 - 00:00, so less time "On peak" compaired to PlusNet

Nildram have a 50GB fair use quota (during peak hours), use as much as you like off peak.
JV


Hm, JV: 08:00 --> 00:00 is 16 hours peak time. Plusnet is 16:00 --> 00:00 which is 8...

But as others have pointed out alot of us work 8 - 8 so only use the net during PN's peak time.


true but PN's ridiculous financial analysis is admitting they were running at a huge loss for x number of years. Must be the excellent marketing director who worked that one out.