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Notice of cancellation

N/A

Notice of cancellation

I've sent this to Plus.net via a support ticket, but am also posting this here so there is a public record.

Quote
You have crippled my Usenet download speeds. I have had no notice in this change of your provided service and had to find out about the change from other customers.

I request my MAC for migration to another ISP.

As you have breached your own terms and conditions i am not obliged to provide a notice of cancellation.

Payment for my next month at Plusnet was previously due in the next couple of days. I hereby revoke my permission for you to take any further payments from me. Any attempts to do so will be met by immediate chargeback and/or legal action.

If you feel this is unreasonable i invite you to try me in a court of law.
33 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,112
Registered: 30-07-2007

Notice of cancellation

Do keep us informed of events, and good luck.
Wheelie
Grafter
Posts: 148
Registered: 04-08-2007

Notice of cancellation

@rhetherington

Whould you mind pointing out what section of the terms and conditions covers this I think everyone affected would be interested.
N/A

Notice of cancellation

Quote

The following comment was added to the ticket
Dear Mr Hetherington,
When we change terms and conditions (these apply unilaterally to all customers) we are obligated to e-mail our customers, the recent change of t's and c's shows that we do this.



When we change service offering such as the recent changes to USENET this does not constitute a change in the t's and c's on any account.



For clarity the t's and c's are here http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/index.html with past copies of the t's and c's also available on that page also.



Only if we change anyhting listed on those t's and c's has any change of contract occured.



Nothing that is not on the page linked to above actually constitute the terms and conditions of the contract between us the provider and you the customer, to change any of these we have to notify you by e-mail giving at least 14 days notice.





Items such as usenet are not a part of the contract between us, as it's never been stated in the t's and c's that usenet was an unlimited service we have not changed the t's and c's by altering this. On each occasion we have altered the terms and conditions we have e-mailed our customerbase informing them of the changes.



There is a diference between things we are obligated to provide and things we chose to provide as a value added feature of accounts. At no time has it been stated in the terms and conditions that, to take a recent and relevant example, we offer any customers unrestriced or unlimited usenet access. As there are no sections of the t's and c's refering to usenet none of the t's and c's have been changed.





Your contractual obligations still stand and payment will be applied for as normal. Please sate clearly if you want your account cancelling and we will process this accordingly, we will not however enter into a legal debate here so please bear this in mind when replying.

Regards,

Link:CUAremoved



To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html

You may view your Contact Us ticket at http://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=tickets
in order to view our response to your ticket, please add a new comment or close the
ticket if the issue has now been resolved to your satisfaction.


Regards,
PlusNet Customer Support


Quote

The following comment was added to the ticket
Dear Mr Hetherington,
The MAC key is: XXXXXXXXXX/XXXX.



The MAC key will be valid for 30 days starting from now.

The next payment will be taken as we have not breached the terms and conditions. Notice is required for leaving the service.



[internal]

Please note migration.

Regards,

Link:CUAremoved



To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html

Read or respond to your ticket -
http://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=tickets

IMPORTANT: Do not reply to this email, our support team can only deal with inquiries through Contact Us


Regards,
PlusNet Customer Support
ceridwen
Grafter
Posts: 937
Registered: 14-10-2007

Notice of cancellation

Quote
Quote

When we change terms and conditions (these apply unilaterally to all customers) we are obligated to e-mail our customers, the recent change of t's and c's shows that we do this.

When we change service offering such as the recent changes to USENET this does not constitute a change in the t's and c's on any account.


Actually that is not what the T&C's say.

The exact wording is

"We may change this Agreement, including our Charges, at any time. We will give you at least 14 days notice of any changes before they take effect."

""Agreement" means these Conditions and Annexes hereto, the Customer Order, and any other document that the parties agree in writing will form part of the Agreement."

i.e. there does not have to be a change in the T&Cs for there to be a change in the Agreement as the T&Cs are only part of the Agreement.

The legal question is therefore whether the Customer Order can be construed as the order for the service as it was at the point of ordering, and hence whether any subsequent change in the service therefore constitutes a change in the Customer Order.

Also note that the summary of the new T&Cs which came into force in September which PN sent via e-mail in August states:

We have made a number of changes aimed at improving our relationship with our customers.

"- Reinforcement of our commitment to giving you 'reasonable notice' of any changes, upgrades or alterations to the service."

note that it says any changes not just changes in T&Cs.

As such either the commitment in that e-mail could be construed as part of the Agreement or else PN are guilty of mis-representation of the last set of changes in the T&Cs.

Matthew
Ben_Brown
Grafter
Posts: 2,839
Registered: 13-06-2007

Notice of cancellation

The changes we have made to the delivery of usenet is not a change in the conditions however as we state clearly that we use various techniques to manage the network, which covers the changes made to usenet.

As such this is not grounds to waive any cancellation notice etc.
N/A

Notice of cancellation

Quote
@rhetherington

Whould you mind pointing out what section of the terms and conditions covers this I think everyone affected would be interested.


I'm no solicitor, so would need to study things more before having a comprehensive answer, but this is some of what i have so far:

http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/index.html
Quote
3.1 Subject to these Conditions PlusNet will provide the Services and/or Equipment specified in the Customer Order.


http://www.plus.net/residential/broadband/broadband_premier.shtml?link=resbb_premierlink
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Broadband Premier is subject to a Sustainable Usage policy. Choosing a higher speed product also gives you a higher level of usage each month - Find out more


Which leads to http://www.plus.net/support/adsl/sustainable_usage_guide.shtml

None of Plus.net's pages make mention of the fact that Usenet will be throttled after a flat 15Gib of downloads and indeed the only mention of Usenet is in regards to peak-time traffic shaping which only comes into effect after three months of exceeding "sustainable usage".

Since i have not exceeded sustainable usage the application of Usenet throttling is not in accordance with Plus.net's SUP, does not meet the service i signed up for, and so Plus.net fails clause 3.1 in their T&C.

I'm sure i can find plenty more too. As to how well it'll stand up in court i don't know, but i'm willing to test it if Plus.net is.

Of course all this may be moot as Plus.net may can me when i don't make my next payment to them (as i fully intend not to) under their T&C:

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11.3 We may suspend the Service to you without notice and without prejudice to our rights of termination under clause 23 in the event of the following:

11.3.1 failure by you to make any payment to us on its due date for payment;
N/A

Notice of cancellation

Quote
Username rhetherington

We are pleased to be able to inform you that a member of our Customer Support
Centre has now escalated your ticket [number 18051505 ]
for further investigation/resolution.

The following comment was added to the ticket
(internal)

correct pool

Regards,

Link:CUAremoved


Quote
Username rhetherington

We are pleased to be able to inform you that a member of our Customer Support
Centre has now returned ticket number [ 18051505 ] to yourself.

The following comment was added to the ticket
**internal** noted

Regards,
Link:CUAremoved


[Moderator's note by Mark (pcsni): CSA names removed fro two posts. Please do not post these details as it is against the rules]
Ben_Brown
Grafter
Posts: 2,839
Registered: 13-06-2007

Notice of cancellation

What you have missed is point 6.1.1 of the AUP which says:
Quote
We manage our network using prioritisation techniques to ensure that during busy periods time sensitive applications such as VoIP, email, gaming and web browsing are given priority over bandwidth intensive, non-time-sensitive applications such as Peer-to-Peer (P2P) file sharing.


Although usenet is not mentioned explicitly, it falls in the description of a "bandwidth intensive, non-time-sensitive application".
N/A

Notice of cancellation

Not looking to cause trouble here, and just playing 'devil's advocate', but doesn't PN's retention level on Usenet make it time-sensitive?

Pete
N/A

Notice of cancellation

Quote
What you have missed is point 6.1.1 of the AUP which says:
Quote
We manage our network using prioritisation techniques to ensure that during busy periods time sensitive applications such as VoIP, email, gaming and web browsing are given priority over bandwidth intensive, non-time-sensitive applications such as Peer-to-Peer (P2P) file sharing.


Although usenet is not mentioned explicitly, it falls in the description of a "bandwidth intensive, non-time-sensitive application".


"Busy periods". This implies (and is confirmed by your SUP) that in non-busy periods (or off-peak as your SUP calls them) you aren't using prioritisation techniques. Yet you are slowing Usenet all the time. This is evidenced by the fact that users are able to download 15Gib at full speed and then are throttled, or are you suggesting that coincidentally the moment a user has downloaded 15Gib a "busy period" starts and continues throughout the rest of the month?
N/A

Notice of cancellation

Do you provide a definitive list of the "bandwidth intensive, non-time-sensitive applications" or does it change as +Net see fit?

Regards
Steve
N/A

Notice of cancellation

Isnt "time-sensitive" also rather subjective?
To some people get what the need download there and then at the full potential speed of the service they have subscribed to be more important then the next email?
Am really puzzled as to how email is "time-sensitive" along side VoIP and gaming?
N/A

Notice of cancellation

Hi there,

Definitive list may be hard to acheive however from Stews post Vision for 2006 we can see how traffic is managed and which traffic goes into either the Gold, Silver or Bronze queue.

As for things changing, to me it would seem logical as things develop, evolve and uses, needs move forward then yes i can see the need for change as and when required to provide the service for customers and manage the network efficiently.
Ben_Brown
Grafter
Posts: 2,839
Registered: 13-06-2007

Notice of cancellation

Quote
...but doesn't PN's retention level on Usenet make it time-sensitive?


By time sensitive we are talking in the order of milliseconds, not days.