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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

I just found from http://tiscalillu.freewebpage.org/ that my exchange is on the LLU list. What exactly are the implications of a move to LLU? I think I read somewhere that if I were moved from IP Stream then if in the future I may have a long period without net access when I wanted to move back to IP Stream. Is this the case?

I have been seriuosly considering leaving PN for a a while anyway and know a couple of people who used to have Tiscali, and to say that they were diabolical would be an understatement. Could someone clarify the implications of moving to LLU before I request my MAC?
56 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,344
Thanks: 598
Fixes: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

I'm sure others will post the negatives, but one positive is that you will get faster uploads than BT's MaxDSL provides to home users.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

Have PlusNet released the upstream limits that they will be using? I thought there were some doubts over whether they would even live up to the speeds provided by MaxDSL?
As for the implications, in the long run this move is IMHO a great thing for PlusNet and the customer. It gets away from the lock-in with BT, gives choice and opens new possibilities.
But here and now there are problems as outlined in numerous other posts, particularly in the way PlusNet are forcing people onto the LLu connections often without giving them adequate notice to move to a new ISP. Customers are currently put at a disadvantage once they are moved to LLU in that they cannot simply migrate to another ISP (be it LLU or BT Wholesale based). The only way to change ISP's is therefore to go through a full cancellation of your ADSL and start from scratch (paying around £50 for the activation and having no ADSL connection in the interim). This will change in the future but it will take some time before it is stable.
All of this could have been avoided but PlusNet have chosen not to address the problems so unfortunately many are recommending that if you have any concerns to get your MAC and migrate ASAP.
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,344
Thanks: 598
Fixes: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

PUG are saying:

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Tiscali LLU Upstream is 800Kb/sec

Uses transferred to the Tiscali LLU service have reported 600Kb/sec upstream (see Tams thread on AG)
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

Thanks elvin. I looked on the usergroup site but couldn't see anything on the FAQ. I'd be interested to hear an official comment about what limits PlusNet will be imposing (if any) on different account types on the LLU provisioned connections.
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,344
Thanks: 598
Fixes: 8
Registered: 10-04-2007

My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

What we don't know is what performance will be like on Tiscali.

BT have said that they expect MaxDSL lines to slow down to around 2MB at peak times. This will be because the network was designed around the 2MB and below speeds and many exchanges will not have the capacity to maintain speeds at peak times. I suspect we are going to see many, many more exchanges with red showing on the exchange checker.

Tiscali have put the equipment into the exchanges at up to 8MB and with the intention that if there is sufficient demand at an exchange it will be upgraded to ADSL2+ and 24MB. One would hope that they planned this all properly and have the capacity to support the higher speeds properly.

Only time will tell.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

A very good point. I hope that with sufficient investment people will see an initial 'honeymoon' period with the LLU connections, experiencing little or no contention and no capacity problems. This will be after the initial teething problems of course Wink
I may end up moving to an LLU connection myself in the future, it's definitely something I've considered, but I don't want it forced on me by an arrogant ISP.
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Re: My Exchnage is on the LLU list - implications?

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I just found from http://tiscalillu.freewebpage.org/ that my exchange is on the LLU list...... Could someone clarify the implications of moving to LLU before I request my MAC?

Note, I have read somewhere in these forums that if PN have already placed on order for your line to move to Tiscali LLU than you may not be able to get a MAC!

See this topic Plus net cant do migrations out...
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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

Yerp, if an order is already placed you are somewhat in a bind. PlusNet are also not informing people in advance of the orders being placed, so customers are not being given the choice to 'opt-out' by leaving (there is no normal opt-out nor will there be). Even if you have already requested your MAC they may invalidate this by submitting a MaxDSL order (and refuse to guarantee to not do so).
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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

Thanks for your comments and replies, it seems my mind is made up, MAC please. The only benefit I can really see is higher upstream speeds, but I'm not going to be a Beta tester for PN/Toscali only to find that if I'm not satisfied with the service and want to move then I will have no web access for a number of weeks, and also being charged £50 for the privilege of transferring to another ISP.

Thank god I found the list and that I have a choice to move before it's too late. I never ever thought that my exchange would be on the list, and I suspect that there will be many angry people when they find out they have been moved to LLU without their prior knowledge and its implications. I can't really believe the way PN are approaching this, but it's becoming typical of the company PN have 'evolved' into. When the name Toscali is involved it sets the alarm bells ringing, and the first thing that comes to mind is terrible terrible service.

I have checked the link in the earlier posts and thankfully no order has been placed on my line. I just have to decide which ISP I am moving too. Any suggestions?
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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

There are a lot of other good ISP's out there and here probably isn't the place to discuss them. Check out ADSLGuide for plenty of info, having a sniff around other ISP's forums can often give a lot of info about customer satisfaction.
I'd also request your MAC sooner rather than later as you must give 30 days notice before you cancel your account (you can also downgrade to a free PAYG dialup account if you want to keep mail and referrals) and PlusNet may submit an LLU or MaxDSL order at any time (there is seemingly no way around this from my discussions with 'support'). Yes, they could even screw up your migration by submitting a MaxDSL order after you have requested your MAC. Aren't they a clever bunch.
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LLU Lists

This from +Net

2006-04-13
11:35:28
link:CUAremoved
CSC Agent Actioned : Dear Mr xxxxxx
As the operating system has no bearing on the connection type, there should be no problem in using a MAC on the LLU system. We have tested MAC's on this and found it not to be an issue.

Regards,
link:CUAremoved

[Moderator's note by Tom (tomspcs) : Please do not post the name of CSC agents on these boards. It is against the link:rules }
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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

Before we all pile in on the CSC rep- you weren't talking about the fruity kind of Mac and did mean the migration a(what does the a stand for?) code?

In which case someone adminster a wet kipper to that CSC agent (or a P45 for being a total *).
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My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

Well, a MAC in capitals can be many things but an Apple Macintosh is always 'Mac' so either way the CSC should be well and truly kippered.
I would be interested in seeing the question that triggered this amusing response though.
Community Veteran
Posts: 4,729
Registered: 04-04-2007

My Exchange is on the LLU list - implications?

@ ab7060

Any chance of posting the question? Before solstans fires the CSR!

Chilly