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L8NC report packet loss

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L8NC report packet loss

Hi

Would anyone be able to have a look at my L8nc log for last couple of days.

I have been experiencing a pretty rubbish connection downloads not going much faster than 50kbs at times. Even tho i'm on MaxDSL syncd' at 8 meg

http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=0d9628ecd5c20f4754e640a7a0a7f1e1

I dont seem to be getting packet loss between 2-8am but the rest of time its pretty poor. I havent used my connection today untill now.

Any thoughts on what could be causing the problem would be great.
9 REPLIES
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L8NC report packet loss

Hi,

I had a look at the graphic you displayed with the post and I cannot see anything thats obviously wrong or would be causing this issue from the graph itself. But having said that I dont think the answer's are too be found in this graph. There are several points to be made about DSL MAX, in that its a different technology from plain old ADSL.

BT's new DSL MAX is said to be "rate adaptive" ADSL technology, meaning that after its initial training phase of 13/14days it should stablise itself & give you a service at the best speeds it can based on your inidividual phone line conditions. The line conditions that the MSR is based upon are things like line length i.e. direct line distance from your BT exchange as the crow flies, attenuation of the line, line noise or signal to noise ratio (SNR), etc.

**Packet loss & Latency are NOT going to be obvious other than slow response times but your router would pick that kind of thing up & logs would proove that?

**Packet loss & latency are due to a number of variable factors, these shift and change all the time. Such things as how many other active users are using the contended connection, the number of hops your router/machine is from the server or site you connecting to, i.e. if the pages your asking for are 30 hops away on a server on the west coast of the USA then your packet loss or latency will more likely be higher than if it was round the corner say in Sheffield.

**The more routers or inter-connected networks your packets have to travel across the more packet loss is likely, the higher the latency too.

Quote
I dont seem to be getting packet loss between 2-8am but the rest of time its pretty poor
Yes! thats because its probably the quietest time of day to use the internet here in the UK. If your using the connection after 8am upto 2am then packet loss & latency might well go up because massive numbers of active users will be using the web at that time in the UK so that makes sense to me i.e. its logical.

**If you DO think your connection is NOT performing as expected or desired then I would definately raise this with F9 after all your paying for a service but not getting value for money. And F9 always market themselves as the value for money ISP (Yahh! right!!!). Doesnt sound like value for money too me from what your saying?

Ivan
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L8NC report packet loss

Thanks for your reply cyteck,

What is interesting is I disconnected earlier to test the BT speed tester and that reported an ok connection (4538 kilo bits per second (Kbps))so I set my router back up to log into force9 and then thought I would run the speed test on the force9 website and rather than getting the 1 meg results i was getting before i got 4506.9kbps I have now tested a couple of times since and got between 1427.8 and 2612.5kbps .But now looking at the graph I am no longer getting any packet loss.

I have tried another router the other day with new filter and cables etc so i know it wasnt a problem at my end the only thing I guess it must have been is a problem with a force9 server and by reconnecting I have connected to a different one :?:

This is what the statud page of my router is reporting:
Downstream Rate : 8128 Kbps
Upstream Rate : 448 Kbps
Downstream Margin : 12 db
Upstream Margin : 25 db
Downstream Line Attenuation : 34
Upstream Line Attenuation : 19

I have tried downloading from a couple of web sites since rebooting and I still now only seem to be downloading at around 140kbs which is still alot lower than when I was on 2 meg.
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L8NC report packet loss

Hello Again,

Yes! I know how you must be feeling, its extremely annoying & very frustrating. I think whats really going on here is a complex combination of different things.

Yes! I agree with you partly about there being a problem with an F9 server, I think thats true because F9 run clustered & load balanced server arrays. For things like the radius authentication & for their email servers. This means if the load balancing isnt spot on then things can slow down until the server which is out of balance is rebalanced by someone in the comms or support team.

**Also worth bearing in mind that some problems are definately BT related and so things can and do get slowed down by BT. This is especialy true since the DSL MAX (so called upto 8megs!) upgrades, MAX is a rate adaptive ADSL technology so speeds do vary almost all the time due to this. But the big idea is that after the initial training period of 13/14 days your speeds are supposed to stabilise hence the MSR (maximum stable rate) and your supposed to have a consistent service (but I havent found this to be the case).

**NOTE: The MSR is useless and highly misleading IMO it bears no reflection on the true speeds you will get and a speed test will prove this easily & quickly.

**OK so for example I'm on MAX DSL so called upto 8meg service, my MSR was 8000kps then was lowered to 5500 and now just 5000. My best actual speeds have been 4.0 to 4.5megs I've not had above 5megs even though BT say my line will support 6megs and even though I'm 1.5Kilometers direct line from my local BT phone echange (quite close I think).

**I wouldnt rely upon the BT or F9 speed tester tool both are inconsistent, I tend to use the speed tester as ADSL Guide. see link here:-

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/tools/speedtest.asp

Ivan
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L8NC report packet loss

Yeah I have used the ADSL guide speed test as well which at the moment is reporting
Downstream 1,390.3 Kbps ( = 1.4 Mbps )
Upstream 373.5 Kbps ( = 0.4 Mbps )

Which generally seems to be the average.

Do you have the link to the MSR page(I cant seem to find it) because i know after my initial training phase it did say 8000mbps (another bulls up by F9).

What is also worth noting is now altho my packet loss has gone (apart from when i rebooted the router) my ping seems alot more unstable as I'm an on-line gamer ping is everything to me.
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L8NC report packet loss

Infact just found the MSR page and mine is showing:
Your current broadband speed is 8000 Kbps

Do you think it is worth logging a call with Force9 to get this investigated or is this service normal of F9 and BT?
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L8NC report packet loss

Ok so an update,

Over the last day or so since I haven't had any packet loss but my ping has been really unstable whilst playing games or just browsing the internet.

Then last night at about 11pm (10pm on the graph) I lost sync for a couple of minutes then on reconnection I am getting the packet loss again!

I haven't had chance to test the connection as after I lost sync I decided to go to bed and now I am at work but looking at my l8nc graph you can clearly see the two differences

If you look at this link today (06th June) you can clearly see the difference in either sides of the loss of sync.
http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=0d9628ecd5c20f4754e640a7a0a7f1e1&sid=&day=yesterday

Anyone else had this problem and would you all confirm this is definatly not a problem at my side of things?
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L8NC report packet loss

Hello Again,

I had a look at your second chart and as the packet loss starts at such a distinct time (between 21:00 to 22:00pm) this might well be significant. QTN: does this happen daily or frequently? how frequently?, or is it purely random? i.e. can you see a pattern emurging (suggest you graph this daily for a few days if you cannot see a pattern yet).

**It looks like something on your connection, or related to the transmission of your data is causing a high level of interference. That much is totally obvious not rocket science. what might be harder to work out or diagnose.

**Have you done any checks for RFI (radio frequency interference) EMF (electro-magnetic frequency interference), etc. Are you using a wired or wireless router? If its a wireless router, these are more vulnerable to RFI & EMF, so things like passing taxi communications, low flying aircraft communications (I'm close to a local airport & have aircraft on final approach), passing police & ambulance (if close to a major road). Check the router isnt close physically to any other electronic equipment such as TV, HiFi,Mobile phone,etc. i.e. close procimity.

**Mobile phone masts close by or other users close by with a wireless router? Its going to be a process of slowly trying to eliminate each possible cause until you can end up pin pointing the source of the problem.

Ivan
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L8NC report packet loss

I think I'll record the charts every day to start comparing.

The only thing is I had no packet loss after i rebouted my router the otherday and got through to a different gateway and then last night as the router lost sync (dont know why) it reconnected and I start getting the packet loss again.

***does this happen daily or frequently?
When I'm getting the packet loss it is generally from around 8:30am(GMT) to 01:30am (GMT) mid day and late at night being the worse times.
When I was getting the unstable ping it was just so random no patern to it at all it didnt matter if I was using the internet alot or not at all the ping was still unstable.

***Have you done any checks for RFI...
I've been using both a wired and wireless router and had the packet loss with both. The router is away from all major electrical appliance and structured electrical cabling.
I'm not near a main road, there is no air traffic near by, nor is there a phone mast (sometimes wish there was I never get a good phone signal lol)

It may also be worth noting if I havent said before is these problems only started when I was transfered (I refuse to say upgraded) to MaxDSL.

Also if its any help I live on a fairly new housing estate built last year and I'm about 20 foot away from the Green BT box (no idea what they are called sorry) so i wouldn't have thought it would have been local cabling either.

You know it would also be nice if someone from force 9 would pop into the forums every now and then and suggest things worth trying which in turn might reduce the number of calls being raised.
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L8NC report packet loss

Hi fallenangel,

OK so from your reply, plan A would be to eliminate your hardware side of things. Check & double check your own kit. So check the problem isnt on the PC, isnt a router configuration problem, isnt a driver for the router problem, isnt a cable from PC/router to the splitter, isnt a filter/splitter problem. (I'm NOT saying it is any of these things but we need to be able to eliminate them from the picture). My impression so far is that this problem isnt going to be hardware related by the sound of it?

**Yes! I definately agree you need to methodically graph/log each day your connection stats.

**It is also worth bearing in mind that the packet loss is taking place during peak useage periods though (8am to 12 midnight) were their will be a vast amount of data transfer through F9's network (central fat pipes) at these times.

**OK I think you can safely rule out /eliminate RFI & EMI and other random electrical interfearance.

**The green thing is a street cabinet? I think thats the term.

**My impression so far is that this packet loss is being caused something either network related or data transfer related. i.e. the problem is beyond your property so that would be either from the street cabinet to the BT exchange, from the exchange to f9. Once you have collected say a weeks worth of log data & graphs see if there is a definate pattern. If you still have no joy then I would think its fair enough to raise it with F9 /BT?

Ivan