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I wish there was a solution to this

N/A

I wish there was a solution to this

Once again my connection is driving me mad.... i have been on MaxDSL for roughly 14 days now, my max stable rate has been set to 6000kbps (for now) but the story goes much deeper than this.

On my side of things, ive bought new routers, new filters, new shielded cables, tried the ring disconnect (which did nothing) and still my connection is poor at times.

Before Max my line stats were approx

Downstream Att: 46dB
Upstream Att: 28dB
Downstream SNR: 30dB

after max, Att stayed the same, but SNR like many other users has dropped down to horrid figures which stand as such.

During the day: 4-8dB
During the night: 0-4dB maybe lower but my router shows something like 2 billion dB which is obviously wrong.

Edit: just checked (cos i just got it) it shows 2147483645dB

Ive had a ticket open since about day 3 of max because disconnections when they happen at night can be anything from 30 second to 5 hour intervals depending on the temperature outside, sync rate makes NO difference, i can connect at 5000kbps and be disconnected in seconds, then resync at 7000kbps and be on at hours (i know it doesnt move like this, im using it as an example). Ive had a CSC agent helping me along with my ticket, ive had whoosh tests done and Fault Checks done on PN's side, and ive been told the line is fine, even tho Whoosh said something silly like 4dB SNR.

How can this be fine? seriously, if it was fine my connection would stay on until i disconnect. Whoosh tests are done over short periods, my SNR is constantly fluctuating, so in a way it is a flawed testing method of testing as it cant possibly guarentee catching the weak point in my line.

The only things i can think of as the problem is either something at the exchange or something to do with the drop line outside my house.

I just know that if a BT engineer comes out hes going to say "theres nothing wrong with it" well of course there wont be, you will be testing it during the day when i dont really have any problems! then i will be charged for his time comming out, but some sort of increased margin would be nice. 12dB during the day should give me the leway i need at night to stop the synch dropping.

Ive read about people saying their connection isnt dropping, its just re-authing blah blah, even PN's system says ive just re-auth'd. But when the ADSL light flashes/goes off and all the values in my router stats clear to 0, then it resyncs at a different rate, id say that was synch lost.

Any ideas, suggestions PN/fellow users? i know you guys are very busy with all this stuff, but it is very teadious and i seem to be just going round in circles, my ticket hasnt really got me anywhere.... Dont get me wrong tho, i do appreciate the help ive been given so far
14 REPLIES
N/A

I wish there was a solution to this

4 db SNR is really bad, this means that the signal is not much above the noise floor, is this really what you meant?
Nocturne
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: 01-08-2007

I wish there was a solution to this

My situation is/was virtually identical.

I've had MaxDsl since 2nd May with the Trial presumably ending on the 12th May - no email confirmation.

My Max Stable Rate at the end of the Trial was 7000 and it was at that value for approx 2 weeks.
I was able to maintain sync in the mid 7000's for several weeks.

In retrospect how I maintained those speeds I've no idea because thereafter my sync speed would drop dramatically, down from 6624 to 288 on one occasion, giving me 256 Kb for 3 days.

I'm as certain as I can be that there must be something happening on the line which has deteriorated causing these fluctuations be it BT or whatever.

Bought a new Router, ADSL Faceplate, shielded cable etc and no change for better or worse.

After possibly a week of this downturn BT have obviously changed my target SNM from 6 dB up to 12 dB which has knocked around 2000 off the speed but things are much more stable now.

Presumably BT will automatically do the same for you, eventually,

My Down Attenuation is typically 44 dB which I believe is close to the borderline for 2 Mb which I was on previously.
I think this means that with a noisy line, which I also have, the situation can and does vary dramatically.

I believe the BT Trial of MaxDsl was primarily with existing 2 Mb users.
Those with borderline 2 Mb connections and lower speeds were not adequately taken into account if at all.
Hence the wildly fluctuating conditions for some users.
A situation which may never be adequately resolved.

My SNM still varies dramatically.
I still periodically drop from 12 dB SNM down to zero (and below ?) and back up to 12 dB in a matter of seconds without losing synch - so far.
I just hope the phone doesn't ring when I'm sat on zero dB.

With luck your situation should improve but I suspect like me it will still get a bit hairy at times.

The Netgear Router I'm using shows a value of 2147483645dB which apparently means a negative SNM.
Sounds like you have the same Router.

There is a bit of software which should work with any Router but was specifically written for the Netgear DG834 called RouterStats. It will log your SNM etc.
Once you start logging the values it can be a case of ignorance is bliss but at least you know what is happening. Google will find it easily.
N/A

I wish there was a solution to this

sponge: thats exactly what i meant

johngbrown: I have the Linksys AG241 (good old cisco hardware) i assumed it means a negative SNR but routers aren't equipt to handle these values i dont think, so they just go positive again. Im glad that im not the only one with this problem, but i think the lines are reasonably old in my area, im not totally sure but somebody somewhere must know how to resolve things like this, they cant possibly expect us to live with an unstable connection because its the next big thing, its like replacing all the planes in the world with some fancy new technology but they tell you theres a chance they could crash quite often, would you want to fly on them?

Cheers for the replies guys
Nocturne
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: 01-08-2007

I wish there was a solution to this

Notwithstanding the sophisticated technology doubtlessly involved I think MaxDsl is a rather crude attempt by BT to compensate for a poor infrastructure.

I suspect there is a significant minority whose circumstances are such that the distance from their exchange and low and fluctuating SNR means that they cannot and never will achieve a satisfactory connection with MaxDsl.

I just hope you and I don't come into that category.

We are, or were, the fourth richest country in the world but lag way behind others in this area and BT have messed up attempting to inch things forward a fraction.
lunarjetman
Grafter
Posts: 59
Registered: 31-07-2007

I wish there was a solution to this

I too am in the same boat and wondering what my options are next.

During the day I have a rock-solid SNR of 6db and a sync rate between 2884 and 3200. Once it gets dark my SNR starts to wobble, dips to 0 and even lower (reporting negative values). My Linksys WAG54G will bravely (bless it) hold onto sync even down to 0db so long as it recovers quite quickly.

But, inevitably, in the evening and early hours of the morning the line drops. It is not uncommon for it to re-sync higher than the rate that just dropped. However, it doesn't drop the line often enough either to make the evenings completely unusable (first line drop didn't occur till 10pm yesterday) or for BT to think the line is so unstable as to need to raise the target SNR.

Last night, as an experiment, I left the router plugged into the test socket behind the master face plate. This made no difference to the sync rate (got 2944), the SNR (wobbled about between 0-6db) or the ability to hold sync (line dropped around 1am). From this I figure that my own internal wiring is not contributing to the constant cycle of evening line drops.

So, I'm kind of in limbo. I'm very reluctant to ask for BT to raise my SNR because I really like having a 2500Kbps data rate. I don't really want to shell out on the, much vaunted for long lines, Netgear DG834G or Belkin 7633 because I have no guarantee it will have a beneficial effect.

My biggest concern is that the situtation is tolerable in summer, but come the winter months my connection will degrade from 4pm onwards. I presume then that if it gets bad BT will adjust my SNR up until the line is stable. What's frustrating is that there just doesn't seem to be any action you can take yourself that has any degree of certainty except that it will cost money.
Nocturne
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: 01-08-2007

I wish there was a solution to this

Quote
I too am in the same boat and wondering what my options are next.

Share your feelings entirely.

Its like being given something highly desirable but then realising there is a big potential problem and you might have it taken away.

PN have hinted they may regrade you back to your old account free of charge.
But then like you perhaps, I think MaxDsl is great when it works well.

The other fear I have is that with all the changes BT have made and the low / fluctuating SNR's I'm now experiencing will I get my old 2 Mb connection back or will they say the current line stats only warrant a 1 Mb connection.

The worst of all worlds.

I would happily live with the odd loss of sync.
It happened with my 2 Mb connection.
Didn't seem to bother BT and it didn't bother me.
But BT don't offer that option with MaxDsl.
They simply knock your throughput back for three days irrespective of how low it goes.
If the loss of connection was due to low SNR then the drop can be very hefty.
N/A

I wish there was a solution to this

I know exactly what you mean, 2mbit was great for me, altho going back i would miss the speed i get from this (550k/sec, sometimes more) if it was just the odd occasion where it dropped id be happy, but its the consistancy of the drops once it starts that becomes very irritating.

I just hope BT have a good plan of action for this, there must be something they can do...
Nocturne
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: 01-08-2007

I wish there was a solution to this

Increasing the target SNM is as sophisticated as it seems to get for BT.

I believe the upper limit is 15 dB.

9 dB increase over 6 dB equates to 3000 in speed ?.
N/A

I wish there was a solution to this

yes it certainly seems more of a workaround than actually fixing the problem, why dont they spend some of the money they charge us on upgrading lines to fibers or high quality copper line, instead of leaving us with aging copper.

Surely its part of their job to maintain top quality service and renew aging hardware. But alas i feel there is a very strong "if it aint totally broke dont fix it" attitude to keep their profit magin in the millions
Nocturne
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: 01-08-2007

I wish there was a solution to this

As an afterthought there are a few routers out there which could help if you are that way inclined.

Some Speedtouch models allow you to set the SNM at a higher level than BT would use and this should reduce the number of disconnections due to deteriorating SNR level.

It also means if the situation improves you don't have the problem of persuading BT to drop the target SNM - assuming it works that way.

One or two others allow you to set a maximum speed which could be better since they may be easier to fine tune to suit the Bras settings.

If I wasn't sat on 12 dB I would be tempted.

This link may help.

http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=dslrouter&Number=2470496&page=1&view=collaps...

There are other posts of a similar nature.

Either way its more expense.
N/A

I wish there was a solution to this

Chaps, have a read of this. I thoroughly recommend trying putting your router/modem into the test socket behind the master faceplate. I had similar sounding problems to yours and once connected in the test socket all the problems appear to have gone away. I've since bought an ADSL faceplate for the master socket and it's still working with no major synch problems.
Nocturne
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: 01-08-2007

I wish there was a solution to this

I installed an ADSL Faceplate when I naively tried to increase the MSR from 7000 quite a while back.

It made no difference but did no harm either.

For me connecting direct to the BT socket behind the BT Faceplate made no difference either.

It is worth trying, to eliminate your own extensions, if you have any.

I disconnected my extension some time ago.
N/A

I wish there was a solution to this

Quote
Chaps, have a read of this. I thoroughly recommend trying putting your router/modem into the test socket behind the master faceplate. I had similar sounding problems to yours and once connected in the test socket all the problems appear to have gone away. I've since bought an ADSL faceplate for the master socket and it's still working with no major synch problems.


sorry mate, tried it, seen the movie, got the t-shirt. it did nothing for me.

johngbrown: that router idea looks very interesting, i never knew we could manually alter it, just wish there was something like that for the linksys routers... maybe i should email linksys..
but im not buying a new one, i just bought this one Sad
N/A

I wish there was a solution to this

sorry chaps Sad Thought I'd point it out in case you hadn't tried it already. Good luck with sorting your probs Smiley