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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

So. I've been wanting to leave for a while, but was struggling to choose an ISP. I'd had 2 mac codes raised previously, but hadn't been able to find an alternative I trusted.

On my third attempt, I realise I'm LLU'd.

Without the opportunity for opt-out, or prior notification.

It takes over a month to get a LLU MAC (note that this is with big response gaps from Plus Net's support, before the usual excuses - "not our fault etc" get trotted out).

I take my shiny LLU code elsewhere to be told that there is a 47 pound charge to move back to BT. Not happy, I report this back to plus net, asking them to move me instead.

The reponse was as follows:

"Unfirtunatley in order for us to move you back to IPSTREAM we also would have to charge you £47. "

and then closed the ticket!

My only options are:

Cancel the service and reactivate. Costs me additional, and Plusnet get 2 or 3 additional payments from me due to the delay in raising the LLU code and the cancellation period.

Wait until we move house. Again, Plusnet get 2 or 3 additional payments from me due to the delay in raising the LLU code and the cancellation period plus however long it takes for the house purchase to complete - also the next poor sap moving into our old house get lumbered with the fees.

Either way, it's a win for Plusnet - plus the reduced wholesale cost of the LLU service vs BT and thus increasing the old proft margin one assumes...!

Except for the disgruntled ex customer. But who cares?

I didn't ask to be LLU'd. I wasn't given the option to be LLU'd. I wish to be returned to IPStream so that I can migrate easily and freely - which was the purpose of the MAC codes in the first place!

Why is there a no cost to the customer method of switching between LLU and BT? The only benefit is to the telco's and to the ISP.

Yet again the customer gets stitched.

Yrs,

Disgusted of Derby.
14 REPLIES
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

I know, we get moved without an option.

but when we want to move back we incur a charge!

This ISP is a joke!

All they do is take our money and give as a shit service!
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

if you visit ADSL guide forum there is a lot of info about LLU and PN t&cs - you may find that they should revert you to BT FOC....

http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=2649559&page=1&view=collapsed...
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

Thanks for the link Paddy, but as noted above, Plusnet have already told me that they will charge me.

I'm hoping that raising it in the forum will encourage them to reconsider their position.
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

Apparently only the people moved in the first month didn't have the chance to opt out, and as such, they can be moved back for free.

Everyone else should have received a message like this:
Quote
As you may know, we’ve been working with a number of broadband network partners to ensure we can continue to provide the best value broadband service available. This email is to let you know that in the future your local telephone exchange could be upgraded to allow us to provide broadband to you through one of these alternative providers.

We expect this to have only a minor impact on your Internet connection, but have provided more details below for your information.

What differences will I notice?
--------------------------------

Our suppliers’ networks are provided through a technology known as Local Loop Unbundling or LLU, which means other companies can replace the part that BT Wholesale currently play in connecting your Broadband connection to our network.

Because the suppliers’ networks are newer and have more capacity, in most cases this will mean customers receive higher peak-time speeds and an improved level of service. New benefits such as up to 800k upload speeds (BT provide up to 448k) and either up to 8Mb or up to 24Mb* download speeds are provided as standard on these LLU networks.

A number of our customers have raised concerns over these new developments. To answer these, we have provided a detailed FAQ which we hope will address any additional queries that you may have -

EDIT:Shortened link to avoid stretching the page. Link can be followed here or followed by copying the following two lines of the URL.
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/
products/network_suppliers.shtml

Thank you for your continued custom.


Kind regards,

PlusNet Customer Support
http://www.plus.net

* Up to 24Mb availability is dependant on our suppliers making these upgrades at individual exchanges. The more customers who are moved to the service, the more likely it is this upgrade will take place.


To opt out, you would have needed to follow the link towards the bottom of the message, which takes you to a web page, with details on how to opt out.
Its not the clearest system, and I'm not sure if the opt out option was also communicated another way to customers, but I suppose they'll argue that the option was and is there to be taken.

For the record, I think its pretty unfair to charge people to be activated on one network, and then move them to another, which means they have to pay again to be activated on the network which they orignally paid to be activated on.
There is clearly a large gap in the thought process employed when preparing the LLU migrations. There really does need to be a no-cost to end user method of migrating back, especially since the migration to LLU is designed in part to save money for an ISP. It should not be allowed to continue to save money for a supplier at the cost of their customer base.
shellsong
Grafter
Posts: 2,191
Registered: 03-08-2007

Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

@techhell

Have you really read rsharma's full analysis of the situation in his informative posts linked to? If you had I would have thought you would be telling PlusNet what to do or possibly escalating to further action unless somehow you have weakened your case
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

Shellsong/All - thanks - I have read the posting, but am hoping that giving Plusnet a chance to behave honourably will have positive results.

I love some of the bits in that email, btw:

"This email is to let you know that in the future your local telephone exchange could be upgraded to allow us to provide broadband to you through one of these alternative providers.

We expect this to have only a minor impact on your Internet connection"

Hahhahahahahha. Could be... In the future... minor impact...

Yeah - that REALLY indicated the importance and availability of an optout!
shellsong
Grafter
Posts: 2,191
Registered: 03-08-2007

Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

@sallyandjames

In that communication PlusNet still do not appear to have covered all necessary bases in that they have not made it clear that, to the detriment of the customer, extra cost and/or difficulties will be experienced when attempting to move to all but a select band of ISPs or back to the BT provisioning-- bsharma's suggested approaches still stand!
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

@shellsong
Erm, yeah, sorry. I didn't realise what I had written could have been misconstrued - rather I had attempted to more or less put the argument which you paraphrased!
Thanks for the correction/clarification. Wink
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

Ah well. Complaint logged with ISPA.

Sad
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

Hi there techhell,

Please let us know how you get on.

I'm in the same boat.

Thanks
Johnathan
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

I most certainly will!

Well, after raising a complaint with ISPA late evening, I received a call at 9.05am the following morning... an unusually rapid response I thought!

Unfortunately I was in a meeting and missed the call.

So the answerphone message was Hello, this is nnn, I will call you back later.

Nothing further that day. Nothing the next day. So I call in... after 10 attempts I discover a route through the IVR to a human being rather than a recorded message and a disconnection. I'm told - at 5:15pm - that everyone in that team has gone home or is in a management meeting. 5.15pm. That's 5.15pm.

So a message is left for nnn's attention. As of 11.30am the next day(today), nothing.

So I guess they've made their attempt to contact me, and that's the excuse I'm expecting to hear later "we did try to contact you".

Yes. From a withheld number, showing as Unknown. With someone's firstname - and no further indentification. And with no way of my returning the call.

More as it happens. Or doesn't, as the case may be...

So far, I've made 2 attempts to ring - 1/2 an hour each time.

What's infuriating is that the longer I'm unable to leave, the more money plusnet make. So that longer it takes me to get a response, or for them to respond, the better off they are.

Effectively, it's not in their interest to answer my calls.

It's sickening.
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

Thanks for the update.

I sent a formal complaint to plusnet, was delivered today.

I've given them till next week before further action.

We shall see...

Good luck

Johnathan
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

No luck.

Was advised that Plusnet see nothing wrong in their behaviour.

I was offered either a credit of 47 pounds - after I'd paid it and been put back on BT, or 2 months service refunded, but I pay the 47 pounds.

I refused this on the basis that I feel that I should NOT have to pay the 47 pounds at all - that I am being held at Plusnet and effectively penalised to leave - since it has taken over a month to even raise the LLU Mac, 2 monthly payments have been made.

My request for a free migration back to BT and 1 month refund has been refused.

I paraphrase, but there was an interesting comment along the lines of "if you're leaving why is in our interest to refund you money". NOT the exact words, I didn't record the conversation - but that was the sense I was left with. I may have misunderstood, but I do not believe so.

Plusnet have now returned this to ISPA apparently.
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Glacial support responses, and LLU charge lock in

Thanks for the update.

Shame that ISPA have not helped, perhaps going to consumer programmes such as Watchdog, Working Lunch etc. might help. Otherwise you might have to get legal advice. You could go to your local Citizen's Advice. Also, try the DTI's consumer direct helpline on 08454 04 05 06 or http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/.

If you've not yet complained to Ofcom, you can do so at http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/internet/. They don't investigate individual complaints but if they get enough complaints about a given provider/issue, they may act.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Regards
Johnathan