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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!


Eh? :shock:

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This thread has branched from the original discussion.

Neil has made it clear that Jon made an error. This error has caused a degree of confusion and the matter has now been clarified.

The original issue (s) raised by Mr Thorne's comments have been dealt with and answered, here and elsewhere.

Nothing can be gained by labouring the genuine error made by a member of the comms team and at 9 pages long, this thread is becoming unmanageable from a modding point of view.

I am locking this one. If any of the side issues require further debate or clarification, then please feel free to start a new thread.

Many thanks.


I dispute both of the above highlighted claims. I also have it on the highest authority that this thread was closed because of a conversation between the moderators; which poses the question why did the moderators abruptly lock this thread. Is it because the customers were becoming so intrusive?

Or were they instructed to lock it?
40 REPLIES
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!


I also add that whenever I have had a thread locked, in the past, I have received an explanatory email from the mod who locked the thread. In this instance I wasn't even allowed that placatory courtesy... Sad
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,653
Registered: 13-06-2007

Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

I agree it was extremly abrupt and without a proper explanation I would hazard a guess that both your suspicions are correct
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

Thank you for your comments theattic.

The inference of pcsni's post seemed to be that my further questioning of Neil Armstrong's reply was labouring the point about an error made by a member of the Comms Team.

I could not have laboured that point, because before Neil's reply, I had been led to believe, via a post from Peter Vaughan on ADSL Guide, that the Comms Team had not made a mistake- that the post from Jon Whiting had been accurate at the time it was made, and that Plusnet's position regarding peak-time on Broadband Plus had changed subsequently.

That obviously contradicted what Neil Armstrong had said, and before this could be clarified, pcsni closed the thread, concluding despite the evidence to the contrary, that everything had been clarified.

The thrust of my comments was about good communications, which I believe leads to better trust. I believe that I put the questions courteously, and feel disappointed if threads are going to be closed, because of the forthright nature of opinions.
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

And to clarify my post on ADSLguide....

My reply assumed Jons original post was correct. We had been discussing peak times within PUG for a while and up until Stews post on how capacity is bought, there had been no mention of the BB+ peak times changing to be the same as premier, only premier was mentioned in our discussions. My only conclusion was as a result of PUGs discusions and those that occured here and on ADSLGuide, PN had changed their mind when Stew was writing his announcement.

It now transpires that PN had already planned to change the BB+ peak time before Jons post but as no mention of this was made in PUG and on the assumption that Jons post was correct, I posted what I did, which was based on information I had at the time.

So if you have to blame anyone for misinformation you can point all your fingers at me Shockedops:
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

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...pcsni closed the thread, concluding despite the evidence to the contrary, that everything had been clarified.


I must agree; it was totally unexpected for Mark to lock the thread in the way he did, and blatantly ignoring the evidence is perplexing...

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The thrust of my comments was about good communications, which I believe leads to better trust. I believe that I put the questions courteously, and feel disappointed if threads are going to be closed, because of the forthright nature of opinions.


I agree entirely. Without good communications any organisation is doomed.
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

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And to clarify my post on ADSLguide....

Thanks, Peter. That goes a considerable way to answering the points that I was raising, and I didn't intend to embarrass either Jon or yourself- simply eliminate the various contradictions.

I think this demonstrates how misunderstandings can be easily resolved if we keep talking to each other, and I'm disappointed therefore, that a moderator sought to close-off the discussion, by inferring that the point was being "laboured" and "nothing [could] be gained" by "labouring" it.

I don't wish to labour the point though. :lol:
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

I tend to agree with the point that threads should remain open if the discussion is still active, it isn't proper for someone to arbitarily decide whether a point is being laboured or not. The only justification I can see for locking a thread is if the discussion has veered off in so many different directions that it is barely recognisable from the original subject and, therefore, impossible to follow. Mark is a good guy who does a good job here, but I have to agree that he got it wrong in this instance. I don't think anyone was trying to hammer Jon anyhow - just trying to get reasonable clarification.
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

Hi all,

The reasons for locking the thread were made quite clear at the time and still stand.

I will add, that the allegation or insinuation that I was instructed to do so is extremely insulting and unjust. I am not here to protect Plus Net, the thread had gone way OT and a point which had already been explained and clarified was being laboured .

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I also have it on the highest authority that this thread was closed because of a conversation between the moderators;


Wrong. The thread was locked for the reasons outlined. As with the vast majority of modding decisions I consulted with the team before taking any decision.

I do find it amazing that people look for and seem to identify conspiracies in many areas on these and other boards.

I am sorry to disappoint. There is no conspiracy here. My reasoning is open and transparent.
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

Mark,

Just as a point of interest, are threads automatically closed once they reach a certain number of pages? The usenet completion thread is 9 pages but is completely on-topic, friendly in tone and about an ongoing service issue. Are there any hard and fast rules with this?

Cheers

Peter
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

Hi Peter,

Recently, in one of the gaming threads, a couple of the mods tried to split, move or edit posts from the thread. In doing so it crashed borwsers and basically went to rats poo. Why or how I do not know, but it makes for difficult management of long threads.

As for hard and fast rules, no we dont as yet have them, but it possibly could be discussed between the mods.

The management aspect was ancilliary to the main issue which was the fact that the original topic had become side tracked with a discussion regarding a genuine mistake made by a member of the comms team. A fact which had been clearly and concisely dealt with by Neil Armstrong.

The opportunity nonetheless exists for the discussion to continue if needed. The thread wasnt removed or hidden but remains here for all to see.
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

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I will add, that the allegation or insinuation that I was instructed to do so is extremely insulting and unjust. ....a point which had already been explained and clarified was being laboured for a purpose only known to those labouring it. ............


I think it's equally insulting and extremely provocative of you to repeat the allegation that the point was being laboured and the purpose is only known to "those labouring it" , when it has been clearly explained in this thread' what the purpose was- that there was an unclarified contradiction- Peter Vaughan had indicated that Jon's post wasn't a mistake; Neil had indicated, to my knowledge, for the first time, that it was.

I appreciate that unlike some isps, Plusnet actively participate in a forum, which is applaudable . It stands to reason though, that they do it because it makes sense to their business model. However, it can hardly be regarded as an open conversation, if you arbitrarily seek to close-off a conversation with them the moment somebody doesn't "trot away" satisfied with the first answer Plusnet give.

Perhaps you might reflect, that the point has actually become more laboured, as a consequence of you closing the thread. That's what generally happens, in my experience, when people seek to close off open discussion.
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

As can be seen from my post which I edited just before you posted, I removed the poor choice of words used by me as I could see how that comment could be taken.

The last few words of that sentence I have withdrawn and apologise for as they conveyed more than I had intended.
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

I don't know, I retire hurt for a couple of weeks, and when I come back you're all at each other's throats...:roll:

Mark is renowned for his "robust" attitude to moderation. Without such an approach there'd be no point in these fora because they'd degenerate again, the way the ADSLguide forum had. I'm generally the first to get out the Bacofoil and scream conspiracy, but in Mark's case it's really not fair to accuse him of being a PN shill. He's clearly criticised PN (CS I assume) in a live thread on the Broadband Help forum for giving the wrong advice, and I doubt it's the first time.

Whatever the perceived rights and wrongs of the modding, there's no denying that the "error" by Jon was corrected.

Could we all try to calm down just a little? All too often a conspiracy turns out to be basic human error and communications breakdown. At least we have a frank exchange of views going on here, if not always a full exchange from the ISP for commercial reasons. The original thread is still there, it hasn't disappeared. Time will tell as to the actual issue of network capacity.
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Ex-PlusNet Network Engineer - whistle blower- part two!

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Recently, in one of the gaming threads, a couple of the mods tried to split, move or edit posts from the thread. In doing so it crashed borwsers and basically went to rats poo. Why or how I do not know, but it makes for difficult management of long threads.

Sounds like you need to upgrade the forum software then, seams to currently have some bugs :!: