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Don't suppose.........

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Don't suppose.........

but.... would it be too much to ask for someone, ANYONE, at PN to actually get of their rather comfy backside and.....

a) Update ticket 19114030 that PN said they would update 2.5 days ago..... but based on the fact that PN have been CONNING me for 2+yrs I guess 2.5 days for an update is asking a lot
b) Fix my BB connection that has been OFFLINE for longer than I care to remember...
c) Refund me the money that is constantly being STOLEN from me by PN.... including the "support line" costs and dial-up costs.... oh, and don't think the invoice isn't coming PN's way, because it is.......
d) Explain to the Co. I work for (from home) why I can't work for them from home even though I have their equipment and am BB enabled (according to PN and BT)....
e) Explain to me exactly what the hell PN are actually providing (as it costs me a lot of money I assumed I'd get something back in return...... well something other than excuses when they can be bothered to reply and a flashing green DSL/BB light)
f) Explain why the "support line" hahahahaha, whoops there goes my sides splitting AGAIN, has been engaged all day (well, whenever I have tried)

Wind? Pee? Direction?
15 REPLIES
JonathanW
Grafter
Posts: 2,648
Registered: 02-10-2007

Don't suppose.........

If this ticket is relating to your fault, and this has been raised through to BT, then it will be with our logged faults team and it will therefore be updated once BT inform us that there is an update.

Unfortunately, any fault that is raised to BTW can take some time to resolve, depending on the nature of your problem and how much work they have to do it in order to resolve it. Though both ourselves and BTW do take every possible measure to ensure that a fault is resolved as swiftly as possible.

We're providing you with a connection, though the majority of the money you pay eacvh month is passed on to BTW to pay for the connection itself and the cost of any bandwidth that you use.

With regards to billing, even if there is a fault we still get charged for the connection, though once it is resolved it is some times possible to be given a refund by BTW, which we can then pass on to you.
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Don't suppose.........

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If this ticket is relating to your fault


Of course it relates to my fault, why else would I mention it? The problem is that PN STATED when the next update would be, therefore all i am doing is asking why that hasn't happened - is that unfair?

The rest of your reply is exactly the same piffle, drivvle and excuse-laden typing I have come to expect from PN. I'll bet BT claim that PN are the problem and you claim they are the problem. I am not interested, my CONTRACT is with PlusNet, NOT BT. Who PN buy their services from, I care not. I am *bl00dy* furious with PlusNet and more so each and every day - your service stinks and the "customer service" that you offer is a disgrace.

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We're providing you with a connection, though the majority of the money you pay eacvh month is passed on to BTW to pay for the connection itself and the cost of any bandwidth that you use


I take serious issue with that statement. You are *NOT* providing me with a connection. I am paying you for a BB service that is ALWAYS OFF and then paying you again for a dial-up service (please correct me if I am wrongHuh) and again I do not give a damn who you pay - that is your problem and therefore I suggest you take that up with your contractual supplier - just like I am, do not use it as an excuse.

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With regards to billing, even if there is a fault we still get charged for the connection, though once it is resolved it is some times possible to be given a refund by BTW, which we can then pass on to you.


Again, that is your issue. My contract is with PlusNet and I will be submitting a fully-costed invoice to PlusNet as you are not supplying the service you are charging me for - simple as that. If I sell you a blue car and it turns up red you would be entitled to a refund or a replacement end of story.

Rather than make any more excuses for the p***-poor service, can someone in PN actually do something positive? Can we get an update from BT (seeing as you claim it is them)Huh? Can PlusNet get out of this constant excuse making frame of mind they are in and actually look after their customers or have they just given up?
IanD
Grafter
Posts: 149
Registered: 01-08-2007

Don't suppose.........

Any legal experts out there who can advise on the situation with regard to the customer having a contract with PlusNet who fail to provide the service?

I fully agree with ncsupplies that if PlusNet fail to provide the service, then the customer should be refunded. It doesn't matter who they are paying as we have a contract with PlusNet for our broadband, not BT or Tiscali.

I understood that the point of sale is where the repair/refund etc comes from (although PC World love to argue otherwise). Is there any reason why this would not be the case with an ISP such as PlusNet?
LiamM
Grafter
Posts: 5,636
Registered: 12-08-2007

Don't suppose.........

Unfortunately there is no SLA with ADSL services, and the Terms and Conditions cover Plusnet for network outages whether it's them or BTw at fault.
IanD
Grafter
Posts: 149
Registered: 01-08-2007

Don't suppose.........

Would consumer law not override any unfair terms or conditions imposed by a a service provider? With temporary short delays then I wouldn't expect there to be any form of refund (as long as they don't constantly occur).

However, if a customer is not receiving the product they have been paying for over a longer period of time, then surely some form of failure to provide goods fit for the purpose is taking place?

I am aware that at times PlusNet has given some form of compensation to the user, so they do help some users, but I'm more curious about the legality of any terms and conditons. Would an SLA not be between the ISP and the broadband provider?
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Don't suppose.........

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Unfortunately there is no SLA with ADSL services, and the Terms and Conditions cover Plusnet for network outages whether it's them or BTw at fault.


And I think (hope!) you will find that there are certain "all-governing" laws in the UK that cover any sort of bland "get out" crap such as that. There are always going to be outages etc. *BUT* it depends on how they are handled, how often they occur and whether all available options were explored etc. I would imagine 2yrs+ of problems would suggest that any hope of using a bland "get out of jail free" card such as the one you have used (on behalf of PlusNet) above goes out of the window. Having worked in finance and retail for 20+ yrs I can honestly say that what you THINK is the law compared to actually what IS the law is usualy a vastly different thing.

And anyway, that is an aside. For long-standing customers of PN to be treated to such a pants service for any length of time should be sorted out by a willing and able partner (i.e. Plusnet) if they are actually any good at what they do or care enough. There should be no need to discusss the TDA, laws, get out clauses etc. and the fact that we are speaks HUGE volumes of how p-poor the service is from PN and to make matters worse the CUSTOMER service is even worse than the contracted service!
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Don't suppose.........

There is no doubt that the position has been adequately explained.

PlusNet, do not have the right to state what they have stated regarding the provision of their service to the end user.
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Don't suppose.........

..and yet another shambolic 24hrs passes without;

a) any update on my ticket
b) still without ANY access to a DSL service I am paying the amateur org. called PlusNet to provide
c) Not one attempt at CUSTOMER service - i.e. tell me, YOUR CUSTOMER, what the hell is going on

Pathetic, shambolic and now not only taking my money but taking the pee with me as a customer..... you should be ashamed and shut down.

And for the odd few who hang around these forums telling other customers with long-standing and severe service problems what a top co. PN are - a word of warning - when PN have finished pee'ing us off, and you get a problem, remember to email me and remind me again what a top company PN are... I'll be waiting.......
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,364
Thanks: 15
Registered: 06-04-2007

Don't suppose.........

The Sale of Goods and Service Act is a statutory right, it means regardless of any weasel words in a 'contract' PN can not take money for which is not of 'satisfactory quality'.

SW.
--
3Mb FTTC
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
N/A

Don't suppose.........

If this is a fault with your line that PN cannot fix, all they can do is contact BT. Once BT fix it, your downtime should be refunded.

Now if BT are taking a long time to fix this, then that is a BT issue and no matter which ISP you was with you would still have the same issue. I dont see how PN can be blamed for this?

Also I am sure they will try and get you a refund but they cannot say now that they will refund you because they dont know BTs position on the fault yet.

Its normal business practice.
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,877
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

Don't suppose.........

In addition; my understanding is that the whole of the sale of goods act etc is based around the word reasonable and that the provider would have to make reasonable endevours to provide a service.

Well PN are making reasonable endevours IMO. You have reported a fault to them which they have reported to their wholesaler.
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Don't suppose.........

Seems to me that if Plusnet keep handing over the money to BT every month, then PlusNet are adding to the problem.
Why are PlusNet handing over a customers cash knowing that he is not recieving anything for it, theres no sense in it. They must hand over thousands of £'s every day. Surely Plusnet have enough clout to say "we're holding this much back until you fix this"
What other services are there that your supplier pays a third party for something that you're not getting under the get out clause of it might work or it might not
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Don't suppose.........

Paul, as nice as that idea would be with in five minutes of PN suggesting that to BT a team of highly paid corporate lawyers would be parachuted into PN to take the place to pieces...


BT would not respond kindly to that sort of threat and it would only make the issue alot worse - with legal action and potentially the withdrawal of service from PN. The biggest problem is that until OFCOMM decide a phone line (where the exchange is enabled and the distance from exchange to CPE is inside the various spec's) must be capable of supporting both VOICE and A(S)DSL then issues like this will keep occuring.
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Don't suppose.........

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In addition; my understanding is that the whole of the sale of goods act etc is based around the word reasonable and that the provider would have to make reasonable endevours to provide a service.

Well PN are making reasonable endevours IMO. You have reported a fault to them which they have reported to their wholesaler.


What/ For 2 years+? That is a REASONABLE endevour in your book? Well thank god I have different opinions and values. PN have passed the book back to me everytime I said they ought to get BT off their fat-corporate ar$e and investigate. As I have said before, I have probably bought more new hardware in the last 2 yrs than PN have.

PN, like most ISP's, are taking money, and continuing to take money, under false pretences. Most non-tech savie customers (i.e. my next door neighbour last night who's service via Virgin / BT has also been down for 7 days - strange that isn't it - and is now buying a new modem as Virgin suggested even though I've told them the problem is BT but BT VOICE have checked their line and it's fine..... you know the conversation....) either don't complain, or don't don't know where or who to complain to, and that add's to PN's profits year on year. If I could charge for a service that was only going to be there for 60% of the year, but yet get paid for 100% of the year, I'd do exactly what PN/BT are doing. Slloooowww things down, delay as much as possible, cut my staff costs to meet the 60% etc. rather than the 100% that would be needed if everyone was "always on".

And whilst I am dialling in (and paying PN even more money) making an issue - quite rightly - about this, exactly how many PN staff have been around trying to explain? calm the situation? Be pro-active? The same amount as usual - diddly-squat.

So, again if you think ANYTHING PN have and are doing about my specific (and no doubt loads of others) situation is REASONABLE then I am afraid you are a very easily pleased and should get some values in your life and hope your connection continues to give you the trouble free service it obviously does at the moment - because if it doesn't, you'll hit the same brick wall I currently am and very quickly change your opinion of PN.