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Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Eserim
Rising Star
Posts: 376
Thanks: 17
Registered: 01-08-2007

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

from the PN statement on adslguid

"or reboot a router that failed to reconnect automatically."

So do routers re-establish connections as soon as a new request for traffic comes in?

aCM
96 REPLIES
N/A

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

You have all received the email, can anyone comment on what happens if we say we will not accept? Is it just an automatic mac code?
channel
Grafter
Posts: 697
Registered: 03-09-2007

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

EDITED TO ADD: Make sure you read to the end of this thread before acting on the information in the post below. It turns out that some of it isn't entirely accurate!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Interesting point.

T&Cs are here:

http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/index.html

Quote
20 How this Contract can be changed

20.1 We may change this Contract, including our charges, at any time. We will give you at least 14 days notice of any changes before they take effect. As explained in paragraph 19, you can end this contract by giving us immediate notice in this 14 day period if we increase our charges or change the conditions of this Contract to your detriment.


The current T&Cs make clear that you can end the contract, but don't state whether this is with a MAC or without a MAC. However, Ofcom to the rescue, I think. The MAC code of practice is outlined here:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/telecoms_ifc/codes/bbm_cop/#content

PN is not listed, but I assume they are signed up to it (since otherwise they couldn't issue MAC codes.)

And if they are signed up to it, then note:

Quote
Customers' rights and obligations
Under the terms of the code:

The existing service provider cannot unreasonably refuse to issue an authorisation code and may only withhold a code if:

    the request is not made by the account holder or the account holder is deceased

    the contract has already been terminated and the connection ceased


However, the existing service provider must explain the reasons and supply information on how to appeal against the decision;

The existing service provider cannot withhold an authorisation code to enforce debt collection or contractual rights.

However, customers are not freed from contractual obligations they have entered in to with their existing service provider - i.e.: they will have to honour the remaining term of an existing contract or pay early cancellation fees, if applicable. An existing service provider will still be able to take reasonable action to enforce their contractual rights even after a customer has migrated to a new service provider.


So I think PN have to give a MAC to those who cancel following their change of the T&Cs. Maybe a PN support agent could clarify this here, for the benefit of doubt?
N/A

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Quote
20 How this Contract can be changed

20.1 We may change this Contract, including our charges, at any time. We will give you at least 14 days notice of any changes before they take effect. As explained in paragraph 19, you can end this contract by giving us immediate notice in this 14 day period if we increase our charges or change the conditions of this Contract to your detriment.

This is interesting as this means plus.net not only can change your product specifications but they can now change how much you pay them as well and I presume if they send you an email and you do not get in touch this will be automated to say you accept the changes.

Alternatively this means plus.net could be reconsidering informing all customers of their products honestly...but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Bright side if anyone wants to get out of PN now, they can because PN are changing your T&C giving you a way to get out - several people have stated they would leave if they weren't tied into a contract for 12 months - now is your chance.
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Re: Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Quote
You have all received the email, can anyone comment on what happens if we say we will not accept? Is it just an automatic mac code?


Erm.................. What mail?
Neil_A
Grafter
Posts: 450
Registered: 04-04-2007

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Hi there,

We're emailing all 200,000 customers (includes dial up and broadband) so it will take us a few days to get all the emails out, around 30,000 will have gone out by late afternoon today. We're emailing broadband customers first.
N/A

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

in a response to the MAC key, i wish i had know that before i went through with it as this is what i got.

 2005-08-10

17:45:46
You
Open : [Support Wizard Journey]
[Account Change Request]
[Cancellation Request]
[ADSL - Post Activation]
[Cancellation Request]
[Outbound Migration Request]
[Unsatisfactory Support / Customer Service]
[Unlisted Provider]
[provide MAC key]
[Additional Information]
i am unhappy with the level of support i have had during the recent months which included moving house and having to regrade my broadband manually (which i paid for) when i was already recieving the 2mb package. i noted on the forum that someone else got theirs regraded for free. also the general level of communication between plusnet and the customers has gotten steadily worse over the past few months. Last but not least the introduction of a soft cap of data transfer is not what i signed up for. I hope to leave by the 1st of september.

Thanks
2005-08-10
19:52:06
XXXX XXXXX
Customer Support Centre Actioned : Dear Mr clark,
There is a £58.75 charge outstanding on this account before we can generate the MAC key due to your deffered house move.

Please advise how you wish to proceed.

Regards,
XXXX XXXXX
2005-08-11
09:42:39
You
Assigned : yes i understand this and i accept it

Thanks
2005-08-11
11:24:49
XXXXX XXXXXX
Customer Support Centre Actioned : Dear Mr clark,
The MAC key is: [MAC KEY].
I have cancelled the Move House contract and the charge is being made shortly.
The mac key expires 1 month today.

Regards,
XXXXX XXXXXX


Mind you i would have paid it but looks like they are holding out for payments.

[Moderators note by csogilvie: I've removed your MAC key from this post - just in case]
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Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Quote
We're emailing all 200,000 customers (includes dial up and broadband) so it will take us a few days to get all the emails out, around 30,000 will have gone out by late afternoon today. We're emailing broadband customers first.

You want to get some botnets installed - some of those viagra spammers can send out millions of emails per hour Tongue
N/A

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Quote
6. Broadband Acceptable Use Policy

6.1 General

6.1.1 The Broadband Internet access component of your account is based on a contended service. This policy contains guidelines on how you can use this Service. We manage our network using prioritisation techniques to ensure that during busy periods time sensitive applications such as VoIP, email, gaming and web browsing are given priority over bandwidth intensive, non-time-sensitive applications such as Peer-to-Peer (P2P) file sharing. Traffic shaping is used to a greater or lesser extent on all our Broadband Services. The effects of this should be virtually un-noticeable to Business customers and should only result in a small percentage reduction in peak-time throughput for Premier customers. You can find more information on contention and how we manage our network here.

6.1.2 These guidelines are to give you a clear expectation as to what constitutes fair and reasonable account usage. You are bound by these guidelines we impose on you, as a user of the Service, in order that we can operate a reliable service for our customers.

6.1.3 If you do not abide by the limitations of this account, we will take action against you not limited to, but including, instant termination of your account without a refund.

6.1.4 Any decision made by us in relation to this Service shall be final.

6.2 Broadband Surf Services (ADSL Home Surf and ADSL Biz Surf)

6.2.1 Broadband Surf products prohibit the use of file sharing (peer-2-peer) applications or access to any USENET service other than the text feed offered by us. We will actively block such applications and any new applications or services of similar purpose.

6.2.2 In order to maximise service availability for all Customers on our more popular Services, PlusNet operates ‘idle time-outs’ on its ADSL Home Surf service. This works by automatically disconnecting sessions which have been inactive for more than thirty minutes. You will be able to reconnect straight away if you wish.

6.3 "Broadband Plus" Service Usage

6.3.1 Broadband Plus is an entry-level residential ADSL Internet access package, designed for fast web browsing, speedy email collection and to offer a general improvement over the technology available through standard dial-up Internet access.

6.3.2 Broadband Plus is not designed to sustain prolonged high-bandwidth, heavy-usage applications such as continuous Peer-to-Peer (P2P) file sharing, streaming video, binary downloads or other intensive uses.

6.3.3 Broadband Plus is designed to ensure that Customers using the package as intended receive the optimum experience. High-bandwidth use, as outlined above, is therefore not recommended. Where the Service has been deemed to have been used inappropriately or to the detriment of the overall Service, PlusNet reserves the right to take action against the account in question.

6.3.4 In order to maximise service availability for all Customers on our more popular Services, PlusNet operates ‘idle time-outs’. This works by automatically disconnecting sessions which have been inactive for more than thirty minutes. You will be able to reconnect straight away if you wish.


Does this mean customers on previousTerms and Conditions now have to agree to this?

The highlighted bold parts are what I have done. Does this relate to complaining about the changes. Ie - either accept it or we'll terminate you without warning?
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Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Quote
Ie - either accept it or we'll terminate you without warning?
That's what I am interested in is this forced on us or GET OUT?
Ben_Brown
Grafter
Posts: 2,839
Registered: 13-06-2007

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Hi there,

We're in the process of sending out emails to all our customers informing them of these changes. Once recieved you have 14 days to inform us via the usual channels of any concerns you have about the new T&C's. If you do not voice your concerns in these 14 days you will then be bound to the new T&C's.

These changes will allow us to continue to provide our customers with the best value broadband connections that we can, and will be better for everyone.
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Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Quote
Hi there,

We're in the process of sending out emails to all our customers informing them of these changes. Once recieved you have 14 days to inform us via the usual channels of any concerns you have about the new T&C's. If you do not voice your concerns in these 14 days you will then be bound to the new T&C's.

These changes will allow us to continue to provide our customers with the best value broadband connections that we can, and will be better for everyone.


See you've picked up a bit of PR SPIN at last, but what happens if some customers do NOT get their e-mails (it's happened before) they are still deemed to accept the new T&C's.

Think it's pretty obvious that customers are protesting, but never mind they are only the ones that read the forum, the rest of the mugs won't know will they so +net can ignore any forum protests.

Great system, punter always loses and +net always win.
csogilvie
Grafter
Posts: 5,852
Registered: 04-04-2007

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Quote
The current T&Cs make clear that you can end the contract, but don't state whether this is with a MAC or without a MAC. However, Ofcom to the rescue, I think. The MAC code of practice is outlined here:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/telecoms_ifc/codes/bbm_cop/#content

PN is not listed, but I assume they are signed up to it (since otherwise they couldn't issue MAC codes.)

And if they are signed up to it, then note:

Quote
Customers' rights and obligations
Under the terms of the code:

The existing service provider cannot unreasonably refuse to issue an authorisation code and may only withhold a code if:

    the request is not made by the account holder or the account holder is deceased

    the contract has already been terminated and the connection ceased


However, the existing service provider must explain the reasons and supply information on how to appeal against the decision;

The existing service provider cannot withhold an authorisation code to enforce debt collection or contractual rights.

However, customers are not freed from contractual obligations they have entered in to with their existing service provider - i.e.: they will have to honour the remaining term of an existing contract or pay early cancellation fees, if applicable. An existing service provider will still be able to take reasonable action to enforce their contractual rights even after a customer has migrated to a new service provider.


So I think PN have to give a MAC to those who cancel following their change of the T&Cs. Maybe a PN support agent could clarify this here, for the benefit of doubt?


Quote
This code of practice is a voluntary measure which has been proposed and developed by an industry group of broadband service providers. The code aims to secure agreement between service providers to facilitate fairly the so-called 'migration' of customers from one provider to another.


PlusNet do not agree with at least one point on the Code of Practice, so they are not subscribed to it, and it is a voluntary code anyway (see quote above). Incidently, I believe the bit they disagree with is

Quote
The existing service provider cannot withhold an authorisation code to enforce debt collection or contractual rights.
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Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

Interesting point on ADSLGuide. Since the definition of broadband is an 'always on connection' wouldn't a timeout mean that it isn't always on, and mean that it isn't actually a broadband connection?

Or am I out of date with the current definition of broadband?
csogilvie
Grafter
Posts: 5,852
Registered: 04-04-2007

Changes to your PlusNet Terms and Conditions

I don't think the definition of Broadband actually specifies any length of connection - certainyl all the ones I've seen are defined as being faster than 256Kb/s (I think thats the right type of K)