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Can we have a Mass Debate please

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Can we have a Mass Debate please

If plusnet were not to go forward with 'idle time-outs' & " traffic prioritisation techniques "

would it make people stay with the isp ?

(I would stay with plusnet if this were to happen as long as nothing in the future upset how I surf).
24 REPLIES
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

I would like a pitch a related question.

Do people feel the service would survive if they where to remove them?
IE, would the service quality be worth while, or are these measures needed to assure that?
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

I will not be affected by any of the changes due to be made (Upto 2Mb Premier). But frankly I am concerned at the lack of clear direction and after 4 years I am moving on.

It appears to me that Plusnet make tweaks and changes on an almost monthly basis! Something somewhere is always being tweaked (percieved if not fact).

I want a service where nobody messes around with traffic shaping, ports, caps etc., and there are plenty of ISP's that don't.

Leave the network alone Plusnet, don't drop your prices, provide a quality service for Premier customers at the appropriate cost. Perhaps a PremierPlus account is required Smiley
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

Idle timeouts don't bother me as I'm on Premier and if they introduce them on Permier my router will reconnect anyway - not to mention its not too hard to get an app to keep the link open.

Traffic shaping/QOS - this is actually a plus point for me as I'm tend not to use p2p filesharing much but do use VOIP etc so I'm happy for PN to introduce shaping.

So all in all I'm not upset by the changes to the service, what has got my goat is the poor customer service standards which PN seem to be heading towards...
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

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I want a service where nobody messes around with traffic shaping, ports, caps etc., and there are plenty of ISP's that don't.


I very much agree with this.

The one snag I find with this, is you wont find any provider will do this.

The differance at PlusNet is they tell you.

THere are providers that make platform changes day in and day out, and quite often the only ever time users find out, is should there be a major platform breakdown as a result (even then, if they admit a platform change was the cause).

I get a feeling many of the problems are down to the "open and honest" bit biting them in the butt.
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

I'm sorry, but I have to say it. "Mass Debate" I know, I'm a pathetic schoolboy, but it made me laugh!

Anyway, I have to agree with Solstans. CS has gone down the drain.
Stef
Grafter
Posts: 247
Registered: 13-08-2007

Re: Can we have a Mass Debate please

Quote
If plusnet were not to go forward with 'idle time-outs' & " traffic prioritisation techniques "

would it make people stay with the isp ?

(I would stay with plusnet if this were to happen as long as nothing in the future upset how I surf).


My decision to stay with PlusNET (I have several broadband connections) is entirely pragmatic. They are better than most, offer excellent value for money, and show willing to adapt. I have been 'stung' by restrictions in the past (e.g. TarPitting) but understood why it was implemented and found a work-around. Whilst I hope, and fully anticipate, staying with plusNET for many more years to come, I know that things can change and if they brought in a draconian restriction that effected me, and there was no work-around, I would have to move on...

This is the INTERNET world, things evolve at a blistering speed and users as well as suppliers need to constantly adapt...

If they announced major upgrades to capacity this would make me even more likely to stay with them... (Having experienced 0808 capacity problems in the past too...)

Cheesy

Regards, Stefan
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

It's not the network & platform alterations that really bother me either - I don't use filesharing software or VOIP or any other fancy stuff, I just surf, email, IM and have a couple of weekly Everquest sessions. So as long as the service is reliable and always there when I want to use it, I'm happy. What does concern me is the increasingly poor standards of customer service I'm seeing and the apparent lack of direction at the upper levels of the company, neither of which (in my view) bodes well for the future. It's those reasons that have led me to reluctantly make the decision to move on to pastures new.
Stef
Grafter
Posts: 247
Registered: 13-08-2007

Can we have a Mass Debate please

Quote
Quote
I want a service where nobody messes around with traffic shaping, ports, caps etc., and there are plenty of ISP's that don't.


I very much agree with this.

The one snag I find with this, is you wont find any provider will do this.

The differance at PlusNet is they tell you.

THere are providers that make platform changes day in and day out, and quite often the only ever time users find out, is should there be a major platform breakdown as a result (even then, if they admit a platform change was the cause).

I get a feeling many of the problems are down to the "open and honest" bit biting them in the butt.


OK, so lets push the 'truth' envelope some more... As I see it:

[Definitions: TypicalProfile(TP):= Some browsing+Some email+SomeVOIP+Occasional downloads + Some Streaming Audio. DownloaderProfile(DP):= Someone who wants to download loads of large files often during the day as fast as possible.]

1/ Most TP users of PN seem to be happy
2/ A lot of DP users seem unhappy
3/ The more capacity you have the more it will be used (For even more downloading then Streaming Video)
4/ As PN grows it will need more capacity.

I think there is a good analogy to be had with the Water network. Many people have found it cost effective to install water meters.
IMO PN must have the tools to 'traffic shape' as the capacity plan for furture growth is developed and rolled-out. Otherwise everybodies service could be kiboshed by 'the next big thing' such as streaming vid.

Somebody else suggested a "Premier+" a 1:1 100% or similar - maybe something like this would be a good idea (at a price).

Having said all this I still think PN should invest in as much bandwidth as possible to be 'ahead' of the demand curve as far as possible...
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

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IE, would the service quality be worth while, or are these measures needed to assure that?


I think in the short term yes they probably are, and as far as I am aware only the traffic shaping has been implemented as yet, and the time outs may not be brought in.

Because I think that when Plusnet brought in the price reductions...... and I realise this is probably not the right choice of words; it attracted the "wrong" kind of person for Plusnets business model in that some people saw it as one of UK's cheapest broadband with an "all you can eat" policy.Because I have noticed: and again I do not mean to be derogatory but quite a high percentage of those complaining the loudest in the forums about these two introductions had joining dates of the first quarter of 2005.I am not discounting the possability that some of those had been with Plusnet for a good number of years and had only just started writing to the forums.

So in the short term the traffic shapeing,and perhaps the introduction of idle time outs is going to send signals out that if you want a rock solid and reliable connection at an excellent price then Plusnet is the place to be but if you want to download 24/7 for what ammounts to be one of the cheapest up to 2 meg ISP's then forget it as Plusnet is not for you.

So in my opinion it may cause problems and upsets in the short term; but in the long term I think it is going to work out just fine
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

Having gone out of their way to attract heavy users with apparently unlimited products at suicidal price points, PlusNet are now reaping what they sowed and are discovering how harmful these customers are to the overall QoS.

It will prove to have been a disastrous management decision to allow heavy users in for £21.99. That said, my own 2MB service has been ok until a couple of weeks ago (but I'm not a 100GB+ user) when usenet traffic was shaped for some people despite denials from PN.

The company's problems now are all about miscommunication. I disagree that they are now/still open and honest and I fear that few visitors to this forum would now automatically believe what PN tell them. This is a problem which has to be addressed at the very top which is where it emanates from.

Someone in the forum suggested recently that, like some opther ISPs, PlusNet should send a monthly newsletter to its customers. The idea, bearing in mind PlusNet's often misleading public statements, made me laugh but it is the way forward. Keeping customers under-informed is not a recipe for long-term success.

Simon
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,877
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

Can we have a Mass Debate please

I think plus need to sit down with a selection of their users (not just the UG) and work out what is the best way forward for both parties.
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

Personally, I expect (and want) my ISP to manage, shape and optimise the network - it's a significant part of what I pay for. So I have always been happy with proposed and actual steps taken by PlusNet to do this.

It's a complex, shared resource, and should be treated as such by service provider and user alike.
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Can we have a Mass Debate please

I'll ditto the posts by solstans and jheard......However, I am waiting a while before totally agreeing for one reason:

I don't have all the speed tests saved and documented and therefore can not demonstrate my point by evidence but I believe my (non-P2P!!) download speeds have deteriorated. I am on 1Mb Premier and used to get c. 900kb/s which was a very reliable figure any time of day or night. Now I get a variable 600-700 kb/s, sometimes a bit more. Surfing now has a '512-like' feel to it. What happened in between??...traffic shaping.

OK, I concede that speedtests can be unreliable (but that unreliable?), I concede that contention may have occurred at my exchange (but exactly at the time of TS and when it still shows green?), I concede that 600-700 kb/s isn't too bad (but it ain't 900 either!), I concede that this figure is at busy times (but so was the 900!).

In summary, I am all for traffic shaping and preventing heavy downloaders from screwing up my service but I am not sure that it hasn't done the opposite to me of what it should be doing and protecting me as a relatively light user. Like I say, I am just monitoring the situation at the moment as it may be coincidence. Has anyone else experienced this (non-P2P) speed drop?

[I also kind of sympathise with those who complain about the way it was implemented. But hey, hindsight is a wondeful thing and I am sure that PN would do it differently if they could go back in time (and have admitted this, I believe).]
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,877
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

Can we have a Mass Debate please

Whilst I agree with the last paragraph there, it is becoming a bit like the boy who cried wolf, PN have said this so many times now people are starting to disbelive it.