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Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

N/A

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

I created a separate thread, so that talk of cancellation T&C's can be kept separate from the general binary newsgroup discussions.

Personally I don't use binary newsgroups any more, not for over 6 or 7 years. But I would be interested in getting a straight answer to a straight question.

Quote
Quote
Terminating Services
Your contract with Force9 can be terminated by:

1. Us giving one month's notice to you.
2. You giving one month's notice to us.
3. You giving us immediate notice within the 14-day notice period if we inform you that we are increasing our charges or changing the conditions of your Contract to your detriment.


Taking away binary Usenet is definitely to my detriment, so I'm assuming I've got 14 days to cancel with no disconnection charges?


This issue is a serious one and I would like to get F9's official response to it. I am assuming the 3rd of April is seen as 30 days notice of intent.

So, my straight question...

Will F9 allow customers to give 14days notice due to the withdrawl of this service?

A note to F9 I would not see "each request for a 14 day termination will be judged on it's own merits" as a straight answer

A note to everyone else I would kindly ask that no one reply to this thread until F9 have had chance to post a reply - all the high spirited personal observations or second guessing F9's reply on this subject are pointless until someone from F9 has had a chance to give an official opinion
13 REPLIES
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

Hi,

The removal of the binary feed isn't considered to be a change to the T's & C's, however if anyone is affected by this change and wants to leave because of it then we will waive any annual contracts. Any outstanding activation/hardware/migration fees would still be due, as they would be if it was a change to the T's & C's, but we won't hold anyone to an annual contract because of it.
N/A

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

Thanks you for the reply Dave.
Frogger
Grafter
Posts: 113
Registered: 19-09-2007

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

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The removal of the binary feed isn't considered to be a change to the T's & C's


Would Dave like to explain why removal of a service which was provided at the start of a contract and for which customers pay money for does not constitute a change of Ts and Cs, if the change is made whilst the contract is still in force.

After all if people remove part of their monthly payment which is provided in exchange for these services, I'm sure F9 would see that as a deviation from the agreed Ts & Cs.

I just wish for a clearer understanding of the legal situation.

Thanks

Colin
N/A

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

I think you will find they wheel out that usenet is a "value added service" and as such is not guaranteed. This has been broached many times in the past with different services (cgi springs to mind) and always eventually ends up with the same answer.

Mark
Frogger
Grafter
Posts: 113
Registered: 19-09-2007

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

Lets see what the official F9 line is before we suggest excuses for them. I don't think that it was made clear to me that some of the services I paid for were 'value added' and could be withdrawn at any time. Surely if that were the case they would be obliged to indicate the fact at contract inception. I have a hard copy of the T&C I agreed to when I signed up, I just need to find it now to refer to. However, the curent T&C states
Quote
The CGI server is provided as an added value extra to your account and no direct technical support is made available for this service
BUT no mention is made of USENET being 'added value' service which can be deleted. The current feature list for all BB products lists USENET access as a feature included in the service, and does NOT specify text only.

So Dave back to you !

Regards
Colin
N/A

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

I think the F9 view here is that there will still be a usenet service - it's just that they are choosing to stop feeded a certain section of newsgroups.

Whether it's value added or not doesn't come into it, since there will still be a usenet service.

It has been complicated by the split in binary and text based newsgroups onto separate servers, giving the impression that binary newsgroups is one service and text newsgroups are another. But they aren't. It's one application - and it will still be available (but the "expensive" part of it will be dropped).
Frogger
Grafter
Posts: 113
Registered: 19-09-2007

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

Why is everyone trying to second guess F9's answers can we wait for their reply to my post. Then we CAN comment on what the customers views are.

Dave Tomlinson or Stewart Norris should be prepared as customer service staff to explain the situation.

Thanks
Colin
quelquod
Rising Star
Posts: 514
Thanks: 49
Registered: 31-07-2007

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

Not in any way attempting to provide F9 with a get-out, however many Usenet providers do not guarantee to provide all newsgroups. Lots don't carry the more 'doubtful' ones for instance, or set different retention periods for messages and F9 have never claimed to carry them all. So not carrying the binary ones is (IMHO) not a material change although of course if affects some people more than others.
Democracy - 3 wolves and a lamb voting about what to have for lunch!
JonathanW
Grafter
Posts: 2,648
Registered: 02-10-2007

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

We are still offering a usenet service, its just that we're not going to be carrying some of the groups anymore. The usenet platform is still going to be available, simply changed a little to offer a better text only service.

We're not the only ISP doing this at the moment, Wanadoo have recently announced that they're not going to be offering their own usenet servers anymore, and Zen have also announced that they're downgrading the status of their servers so that its now a 'best effort' service.
Frogger
Grafter
Posts: 113
Registered: 19-09-2007

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

OK, I'll give up now.
I wait for my electricty provider to tell me I can use electricity to run my lights but not my TV :lol:
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

I think the simplest explanation is that the T's & C's themselves don't explicitly mention the provision of Usenet, whether binary or text so the removal of the binary feed doesn't change the actual T's & C's because there is no part that explicitly states

x.x We provide a binary news feed....

As such the actual document remains the same. Now we recognise that some customers aren't go to be happy about this decision so should anyone decide they wish to cancel because of the removal of the binary feed we have made the decision is that we will honour any cancellation request on this basis as if it was a change to the T's & C's and waive any annual contracts.
N/A

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

Quote
the actual T's & C's because there is no part that explicitly states

x.x We provide a binary news feed....

As such the actual document remains the same.


I think this is irrelevant because when I signed up the sales page explicitly stated that it was a full uncensored newsfeed.

removal of binaries is not a full newsfeed.... (and is almost censorship).

Any company who resorts to enforcing rules via the "small print" (that nobody reads) is a company that doesn't think about it's customers first.

I'm not complaining though.... just making a point.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

Binary Usenet - A detrimental change to the T&C's?

Which is the main reason we have said that anyone wanting to leave because of the change can do so as if it was a change to the T's & C's, but the actual T's & C's document hasn't changed.