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BT Vision

flyer99
Grafter
Posts: 70
Registered: 18-05-2007

BT Vision

Hi
As Plusnet is/will be part of BT will Plusnet be offering the BT vision service? As an early adopter of technology I wish to try this system out, but I am reluctant to have to move ISP as the BT site says you have to have the BT total broadband package.(Monopoly springs to mind!)
Or will Plusnet be offering its own flavour of this type of technology...........?


Regards
Nick
11 REPLIES
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 12,801
Thanks: 634
Fixes: 62
Registered: 04-04-2007

BT Vision

Nick,

Whether we become part of BT or not I think it's certainly a possibility. The next major product of this sort of calibre is likely to be a BT Fusion'esque offering.

Kind Rgds

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Products Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

jnwright
Grafter
Posts: 281
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

BT Vision

A quick look at the news on thinkbroadband (was ADSLguide) at

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/2906-bt-vision-launch-takes-bt-into-tv-arena.html

reveals "For those who want the technical low down on the service, the on demand content is streamed over a TCP connection using a 1.5Mbps bit rate, with content playing as soon as you select it."

Also it says "With a 1.5Mbps video stream, the minimum speed ADSL connection needed will be a 2Mbps service, which in theory is available to around 90% of households if using the rate adaptive up to 8Mbps Max services."

And "2007 will see Vodafone offering the BT Vision product to its broadband customers once it launches in the New Year, and other providers may well offer it as an option."


2,000 of Plusnet's customers (1%) connected to this service at the same time would saturate Plusnet's broadband capacity, so I think not! Correct me if I am wrong!
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 12,169
Thanks: 18
Fixes: 1
Registered: 04-04-2007

BT Vision

Whilst it's too early and not the right juncture to go into specifics, the idea of a premium service on top of the broadband is something that has been around for a long time and the ideas of how that fits in.

Let me give you an idea of how something like this could work. The part that's of particular relevance is the video on demand feature as that's the part that uses the broadband connecton. Your maths are right that if 2,000 people were streaming at 1.5Mbps at the same time that would use up our bandwidth, but you then need to take into account the subscription fee or on demand fee that they would be paying.

One of the things we've been talking about is how the Ellacoyas can prioritise traffic and how our queues work, so let's say those people were paying £3 for a film or £6 per month for a subscription package then part of that extra revenue pays for the capacity to put that traffic in one of the top queues. 1.5Mbps equates to about 675MB per hour (so about 1GB for the average film), with bandwidth costs worked out to around 60p-£1 (difficult to put an exact figure on it as we don't pay BT Wholesale per GB but by capacity) that's how it would work.
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,877
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

BT Vision

/me is confused.

If 2,000 people were streaming at 1.5mbps that would use up the central capacity PN has yes?

If so how is using the ellacoyas to prioritise the Video on Demand traffic going to help? If there are 2000 people online, streaming at 1.5mbps then the bandwith is gone, no amount of prioritisation over other traffic will change that. Only using the subscription payments to buy more capacity to stream stuff over will.

Or have I missed something and if so what and any chance of an analogy? :p
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,124
Thanks: 4
Registered: 14-08-2007

BT Vision

I think he is saying that the extra revenues provided by video on demand would pay for extra capacity which would be dedicated (by the traffic prioritisation) to the service.

Remains to be seen how well this would work though.

I can imagine being mightily p'd off if I paid to watch somthing and it stuttered and jumped due to lack of capacity.
N/A

BT Vision

As always, the maths is pretty poor.

2000 users at 1.5mb/s = 3000mb/s
5 x 622mb/s centrals = 3110mb/s
5 x £124,730 (price per month) = £623,650
£623,650/2000 = £311.83 per month per customer to guarantee video on demand for everyone.

Of course, you could always sell it to 104,000 users to bring the price down to £6/month, but I don't see sky telling people "sorry, you can't watch this film right now". Contention ratios will not work with a paid for, on demand TV service.
ceridwen
Grafter
Posts: 937
Registered: 14-10-2007

BT Vision

Actually based on those figures, it is difficult to see how any ISP (including BT) will make this work.

At a £3 per month subscription you are basically hoping that only 1% of your users will be actively using the service at any one time.

At a £30 per month subscription you can survive on the hope that only 10% of your subscribers are using the service - although at this price point Sky/Sky+ becomes a much better bargain.

It does seem very fragile, in that the success of the service depends on people subscribing to it but not making much use of it.

A per film pricing model is even worse as you still have to guarantee the bandwidth but no longer have a guaranteed or reliable source to pay for it?

Overeall, I don't think Sky has to worry about this just yet...

Matthew
N/A

BT Vision

The only way I can see it working for BT is if they ignore the rules seperating BT wholesale from BT retail. Maybe that's why BT and OFCOM have been so cozy lately.

From a wholesale POV, the bandwidth costs next to nothing once they have recovered their initial hardware costs and the more data they shove down the cables the quicker they recover those costs.
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,364
Thanks: 15
Registered: 06-04-2007

BT Vision

Quote
As always, the maths is pretty poor.

2000 users at 1.5mb/s = 3000mb/s
5 x 622mb/s centrals = 3110mb/s
5 x £124,730 (price per month) = £623,650


The wholesale line rental costs will come down by about £1.50 per line per month next year ... allegedly.

So with 160000 customers this is an extra £2400000/month into the PN bank account if they do not reduce accout fees. Wink

SW.
--
3Mb FTTC
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
blowdart
Grafter
Posts: 93
Registered: 04-08-2007

BT Vision

Keep in mind that BT Vision works like C4 and Sky.... it's a P2P app. And of course PlusNet tells us those are bad.

Hmm, makes you wonder doesn't it?
N/A

BT Vision

Remember, its [P2P] only bad if its not a revenue stream. As soon as you can find a way to generate cash from it, it becomes good.

Imagine for a second that you are a BT type dude.

You have a product which you want to be the "new black".

Only trouble is, its designed to use a form of traffic that will totally foul your network up.

What you need to do, is get some clever chappies to limit the capacity that your new product will use at any one time.

But hold on, perhaps if these clever folks you seek can limit the traffic rates for BTFusion, perhaps they can also limit rates for other stuff too?

Perhaps they can 'find' spare capacity across your network so you don't have to increase it hugely to compensate for this extra data?

Hmm, now pricing, supposing that you price your DVD style offering at just above the price of a DVD rental? Its certainly much more convenient, and of course the end user will understand that bandwidth is expensive, and need to be paid for.

So you get paid more than the DVD rental firms, and you don't have to buy the media, you have found somebody to free up some bandwidth for you, you don't have to post the media out, and pay for its return postage either.


Hmm, to really seal your promotion, it would be handy if these folks could also provide support and development for the helpdesk software you use.


And folks were surprised when BT started to sniff around PN?

Come on guys, it all fits together like a cynical jigsaw