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24Mb Speeds and SUP

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 2,563
Thanks: 262
Fixes: 5
Registered: 06-04-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

Hi

With Stuarts announcments of 24Mb speeds using Easynet LLU, how will this effect the SUP. Isn't the SUP in place mainly because of the hugh costs of the BT Centrals? So using easynet wont impact on the BT Centrals will it?

I'm not saying the SUP should be abolished or anything, but surely there will be a lot of users no longer on PlusNet's BT Centrals as they will be coming from the Easynet network. Are you able to tell us what kind of Peering arrangements you have with easynet? Hence equivelant of BT Centrals but for easynet?

I know it's still very early days, and some of these may not be known yet, or been thought of. I'm just interested (and a bit nosey!).

Phil
20 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,322
Registered: 01-08-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

The way I understand LLU is that the Local Line Unbundling, is only the last run - i.e. the cable between you and the exchange. You just connect to Easynet equipment inside the exchange instead of BT's.

From there onward its as per normal, through the BT ATM network, transit through to the ISP and away...- indeed if you ultimately connect to PN and all your traffic passes through Plusnet, then there will be no reduction in traffic for PN - they will still be passing it out to the internet and the return traffic back to the BT ATM network...

I may be wrong, but that is my understanding.
Alecto
Grafter
Posts: 2,886
Registered: 30-07-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

Then, without wishing to be a killjoy, if they can't cope with the extra traffic from the near-universal 2Mb, what chance have they if they give people 24Mb?
Unless you're supposed to get superfast emails and sod all else.
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,877
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Registered: 05-04-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

I thought LLUstream (easynet's wholsale product) was eqivalent to IPstream and easynet provide an equivalent of centrals.
N/A

24Mb Speeds and SUP

Quote
Then, without wishing to be a killjoy, if they can't cope with the extra traffic from the near-universal 2Mb, what chance have they if they give people 24Mb?
Unless you're supposed to get superfast emails and sod all else.


Good Point ;-)
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,877
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

Quote
Then, without wishing to be a killjoy, if they can't cope with the extra traffic from the near-universal 2Mb, what chance have they if they give people 24Mb?
Unless you're supposed to get superfast emails and sod all else.


Isn't LLU cheaper to run? ;-)
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 2,563
Thanks: 262
Fixes: 5
Registered: 06-04-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

I thought the same as Daniel, hence my post. Could be wrong though.

Phil
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 2,563
Thanks: 262
Fixes: 5
Registered: 06-04-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

Have a look at http://www.easynet.net/pdfs/llustream_datasheet.pdf

I read the top left of page 2 titled "A flexible LLUStream Core Network" as the data is provided directly from Easynet and not across the BT Centrals.

Ian Wild (I presume same ex-employee of PlusNet Ian Wild) has posted a question in the AG forums in response to Stuarts announcment about SUP profiles and LLU.

Phil
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24Mb Speeds and SUP

Well if you are on 8Mb from BT or from EasyNet then the SUP will be the same however on the higher speeds it is likely to be higher when I have anything confirmed I will let you know.

Also with regards to the delivery we have been expecting higher speed broadband services for some time and have built this into our business plans. Initially the low number of exchanges enabled will have virtually no impact on our overall bandwidth requirements. The speeds of up to 24Mb via Easynet will of course be delivered across LLU and will therefore not affect our existing BT Central pipes - indeed we should see a small reduction in bandwidth requirements.
N/A

24Mb Speeds and SUP

Quote
The speeds of up to 24Mb via Easynet will of course be delivered across LLU and will therefore not affect our existing BT Central pipes - indeed we should see a small reduction in bandwidth requirements.


Small reduction in bandwidth requirements? Thats absurd. Sure, per customer the bandwidth used will drop if some customers are using Easynet bandwidth - but *in the real world* existing customer bandwidth usage is only likely to go up (how many people will get an extra PC at christmas to use on their existing connection I wonder?) - plus you will be adding on new customers (presumably at a greater rate than you lose them!) - overall bandwidth requirements will go up and up...

Its absurd to suggest that somehow existing customers will somehow get a bigger share of bandwidth - also by the fact that LLU is only going to affect a *very small percentage* of customers, and even then they need to be close to the exchange even if it is enabled.

Take you marketing hat off, it doesnt suit you. :lol:


[Moderator's note by Mark (pcsni): Enabled bbcode for you so that quote tags would work]
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,322
Registered: 01-08-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

You dont necessarily need to be closeto the exchange to benefit from this.

As LLU uses the SNR level rather than your attenuation as a measure of your stable line speed, there is the very real possibility that people who are only able to receive 512k or 1mb will be able to move to higher speeds of anything up to 4mb if they have a high attenuation, as long as its a nice and clean line.

I am stuck at 1mb due to BT's method of determining line speed via attenuation, but for my attenuation my line is particularly clean, living in a new build area - so There is the possibility that I could get anything up to 4mb my moving to LLU.

Obviously the benefit for those closer to the exchange with (presumably) less noise on their lines, will be greater. However lets not underestimate what this can do for those of us with lower than 2mb speeds currently.

There are countless examples of people in the UKOnline and Bulldog forums who used to have 1mb under BT, but now have nearer 4.
N/A

24Mb Speeds and SUP

So really, as more and more customers move over onto the upto 24mb LLU service us left on the upto 2mb should see an increase in product performance. Better peak speeds and much less speed loss on a whole?
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,322
Registered: 01-08-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

Not necessarily, we seem to be experiencing speed issues, (with P2P and usenet) due to a combination of factors. The ammount of customes using these services at present, and the ammount of customers per segment dictated by PN's revenue/capacity planning.

Therefore yes, initially if hundreds or thouands of customers switched over to the LLU products, then there could be some spare capacity left for the others, hoever with the rate of new sign ups, it would not take long to reach the same numbers of customers per pipe that we currently see - therefore the P2P and usenet speed reductions could return.

It may be that the bandwidth used by those leaving for the faster products will be greater than that used by the same number of new signups - so it could alleviate some issues - only time will tell.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 2,563
Thanks: 262
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Registered: 06-04-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

I would think that PlusNet would get rid of some of it's BT Centrals if they started to get greatly under utilised due to loads of customers using the easynet network. The main reason for all the network management and everything is that the BT Centrals cost so much. Otherwise I'm sure PlusNet would just buy hundreds of them, so everyone could run their lines as if it had 1:1 contention.

Who knows what would happen anyway. BT costs could be right down (even cheaper :lol: ) by the time easynet (or any other LLU provider that PlusNet could go with) gets the number of exchanges enabled to a level where a good proportion of PlusNet customers could use LLU.

Phil
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,322
Registered: 01-08-2007

24Mb Speeds and SUP

Yes, there is the possibility that as companies like Easynet, Bulldog and Be start to invest more heavily into LLU services, the BT central prices could fall.

That should bring benefit to everyone, and it will certainly help the future of Broadband in the UK. Once Broadband becomes "standard" in every home and business, more effort can be put into network improvements, and technology improvements in order to deliver faster speeds.

It is good that PN are to be part of this particular band wagon, and hopefuly we shall see some improvements in speed and reuctions in prices in time to come.