Unlimited/Essentials product launch December 2012

[#1]

Quote from: jelv

Why would you be expecting Max Premium to drop?

It did last time I changed product.

[#2]

It didn't happen to me when I changed from PAYG to Extra.

[#3]

Paid for Max Premium is still needed on 20CN to get 832kbps upload.

[#4]

Quote from: spraxyt

On the Unlimited package everything is at line speed (subject to any external congestion effects) at all times. Traffic prioritisation could affect certain protocols, specifically P2P/Usenet but this should only be noticed if you max out your line with higher priority traffic, eg streaming or VoIP. The Pro Add-on changes relative priorities. Choose Plusnet Unlimited and Pro Add-on in the comparison tool http://usergroup.plus.net/newprodcomp.php for a pictorial comparison of the difference.

I've looked at the comparison tool and understand that the only difference between Unlimited and Unlimited+Pro is the prioritisation of certain types of traffic (there is no bandwidth throttling on either as there is with some other products, such as Essentials). This prioritisation is then used to decide which packets to drop (those with the lowest priority) when a particular point in the network reaches saturation point (ensuring that higher priority traffic gets through). What I'm not clear on is at what point(s) in the network -- from a packet leaving my local device, to it being received by the target remote device, and a response packet coming back again -- does this packet-dropping take place? Does it happen at the Exchange, or only somewhere within PN's core network (I assume the latter)?
The reason I ask is that today I've been moved from Premium (120GB) + Pro to Unlimited + Pro and I want to understand whether it is really worth the extra £5 per month for Pro on top of Unlimited. When I initially spoke to PN to request the product change to Unlimited, I was told that Pro wasn't even available on Unlimited and it would be taken off automatically as part of my product change, but it hasn't been removed. (I can understand that this was at a time when not all PN staff will have been fully briefed on Unlimited, so I don't really have a problem with the misinformation in itself.) Ultimately, if Pro does make a positive difference to my throughput -- particularly at peak times -- then I'm happy to pay the additional £5 per month.
Any views?

[#5]

I would remove it and then add it if you ever run into a scenario where you need it.
Latency and (eventual) packet dropping of lower priority traffic occurs in the PN network after your traffic has left the BT backhaul.  It's done on an overall network capacity level, and based on what your line can support.  This means that if you are maxing your line with P2P and fire up a Youtube stream, we slow the P2P to make room for the video.  With Pro, they'll both fight it out.
Read: http://community.plus.net/blog/2012/12/21/its-unlimited-why-is-it-still-traffic-managed/ if you haven't seen it.

[#6]

Quote from: Kelly

Latency and (eventual) packet dropping of lower priority traffic occurs in the PN network after your traffic has left the BT backhaul.   It's done on an overall network capacity level, and based on what your line can support.

Is it applied for both downstream and upstream traffic?

Quote from: Kelly

This means that if you are maxing your line with P2P and fire up a Youtube stream, we slow the P2P to make room for the video.  With Pro, they'll both fight it out.

Mmm, in that case, having the Pro add-on may actually be detrimental to perceived performance in some circumstances (such as your example).

Quote from: Kelly

Read: http://community.plus.net/blog/2012/12/21/its-unlimited-why-is-it-still-traffic-managed/ if you haven't seen it.

Yes thanks, I'd seen this already, but wanted a little more detail.

[#7]

Upstream only as I found out when a P2P application was maxing out my upload and it killed everything else stone dead

[#8]

From personal experience during pre-release testing of unlimited I know P2P *can*, as Oldjim said, cause problems with streaming due to upload being swamped. However experienced P2P users should be well versed in this sort of problem and will manage their application to suit their overall needs. Unlimited places that responsibility firmly in the hands of the user which is where it should be.
Since @mikealexander already has the Pro Add-on applied I suggest running with that for two or three weeks to get a feel for performance with the new product, then turn it off and see whether its removal is significant. If desired it can always be turned on again the following month.

[#9]

Hi, just moved from Extra to Unlimited, as its a couple of quid cheaper and unlimited.
I read the FAQ and nowhere did it suggest my connection would be throttled any differently to what it currently is, however, after I accepted the terms and condions, the final summary said:
Current product: 13.5Mb (down) / 1Mb(up)
New product:7.5Mb
Errm, is this correct????

[#10]

Been asked several times, ignore it.

[#11]

Quote from: spraxyt

From personal experience during pre-release testing of unlimited I know P2P *can*, as Oldjim said, cause problems with streaming due to upload being swamped. However experienced P2P users should be well versed in this sort of problem and will manage their application to suit their overall needs. Unlimited places that responsibility firmly in the hands of the user which is where it should be.

I've seen the same issue even when not using P2P. I use box.net to sync some files to the cloud and, unlike Dropbox, it doesn't have any settings to limit it's bandwidth usage (up or down). If it's syncing a very large file up to the cloud, it maxes out my upstream bandwidth, which has a significant detrimental impact on downstream performance (presumably because even downstream traffic requires some upstream bandwidth for protocol overheads). As you say, managing this can be done by the user (I simply cancel the sync to just before I go to bed and let it run overnight).
In any case, this behaviour is still more to do with me maxing out my upstream rather than PNs traffic management. I'm still not sure whether traffic management within PNs network (i.e. dropping lower priority packets if required) is applied both upstream and downstream.

Quote from: spraxyt

Since @mikealexander already has the Pro Add-on applied I suggest running with that for two or three weeks to get a feel for performance with the new product, then turn it off and see whether its removal is significant. If desired it can always be turned on again the following month.

That's exactly what I'm going to do. 

[#12]

It would be slightly cheaper for me to swing over from my antediluvian BB+ account to a non-contract (it would suit me to be non-contract for the time being) unlimited account but as an existing customer do i get hit for the £50 setup fee?

[#13]

No

[#14]

thanks Oldjim.

[#15]

Quote from: mikealexander

In any case, this behaviour is still more to do with me maxing out my upstream rather than PNs traffic management. I'm still not sure whether traffic management within PNs network (i.e. dropping lower priority packets if required) is applied both upstream and downstream.

Traffic management is applied downstream only. Its purpose is to prevent arbitrary dropping of lower priority packets by the bRAS in the exchange on their way to the end user because the copper line is already maxed out. In the upstream direction that bottleneck (and the host links) have already been traversed by the time Plusnet see the packets so it is pointless and unnecessary to drop anything.
Edit: to cross out "lower priority" - the bRAS drops any packet that won't fit whatever its priority. Plusnet try to avoid this happening to higher priority (interactive) packets.